Missing Sailor & Family, Sanibel Island

[Anonymous 121765]

Ya know what guys,

There were 4 people living aboard a 27 footer on the hook for a year...........REALLY???
How does this make sense?

Knowing a late season cold front coming thru should have changed his itinerary, he could have
just safely motored down the ICW. However, he must have thought he was bigger than Mother Nature.

NO ONE is bigger than Mother Nature. This type of thinking can & will doom you most times.

What about that dumbass captain skippering the Bounty? Yea, he thought he was bigger also.
Look how that turned out.

The ICW is a nice easy ride but, he thought he was bigger than MN in a 27 ft. shit sailboat.
Will any survive, I do not know? There was a report that the CG picked up a flare last nite. All I know
is that two out of four people are dead thus far & for what?.

From what I read in the media, his headsail was found floating 100 miles SSW
of his last known position. Obviously a hank-on.

His life & his children's life was probably not the best type of living but, living aboard on the hook
with 3 children & then taking a stupid course plan south with an approaching cold front,
cost lives thus far.

He Sucks.........as both a parent & a skipper.
I do NOT feel any remorse for him, I do however feel for his children.

I am really mad, this loss of life was totally unnecessary & close to home............

CR

 

[Kings Gambit]

IMHO, this skipper probably was not "sailing", or motoring, 30 or more nautical miles offshore to transit from Sarasota Bay to Charlotte Harbor. Nobody who wanted to get there in under 12 hr would do that. That is where the "debris field" was found two days after the disaster. From the report of the cell phone call to the brother on Sunday afternoon, where the skipper gave his location as "off Englewood", and at the same time reported his distress, I suspect that the boat went down much closer to shore, and the floating items were driven offshore by the storm and other offshore wind over the two intervening days b/f the USCG search. If he were way out there, I doubt he would have known his location (assuming he actually did). So, yes, likely easily within VHF range of even a hand-held, fully charged up, and capable of transmitting on "high power." Also, whereas I too offer condolences to friends of this unfortunate family, I don't see how it can be said he did "nothing wrong." Perhaps, it could be said that his decision was made under circumstances against which blame for it should not be assigned in retrospect, but the decision itself, i.e., to take the outside route to Charlotte Harbor on that day, was clearly wrong, considering what happened. And if the weather forecast was known and ignored, or not believed, then worse than simply wrong. The comment above on the quality of the Seafarer line of yachts contributes to the appalling circumstance of an aged, poorly-constructed boat, in evident disrepair, with an outboard of who knows what reliability, taking off on a sea voyage of no less than 60 n.mi. lacking at least one or two items of basic safety equipment. I think we can all be sympathetic to those suffering life's misfortunes of job and family, but it's hard to sympathize too much with the prior tribulations of the skipper/father for this event. A 29-ft boat anchored at Marina Jack is not "a house"; it's a boat, on the water, and should always be treated with that point of view.

 

[Ron20324]

I'm not going back to read all thenewspapers and 63 posts, but do we know, in fact, the kids lived on the boat, too? Maybe just the dad, and he had the kids for the weekend or such? Face it, there are families who live in cars that don't even run.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I'm not going back to read all thenewspapers and 63 posts, but do we know, in fact, the kids lived on the boat, too? Maybe just the dad, and he had the kids for the weekend or such? Face it, there are families who live in cars that don't even run.

When it comes right down to it, we know only what has been reported in news media, which, I believe, reported the family was living aboard the boat, etc.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

-in all honesty, I don't expect strong norther fronts this time of year.
he probably didn't either. but should have known, since he was going outside.


fwiw, I read the wife hadn't seen or spoken to her ex or kids in over a year. but followed them on social media/friends.

 

[waterpirate]

I read the full version of every USCG, USsailing, and RYC accident/incident report involving a sailboat.

There is learning in these for everyone, and it also sobering when I could not think of anything better that I would have done to prevent the outcome. I've also learned that almost anyone can fall victim to a series of (seemingly) small events that leads to big trouble. So I'm very careful not to judge. Clearly some are more preventable. Like this one I suppose. But I don't know the circumstances of the person involved. It not for me to decide if they should be allowed on the water. Or pass judgment.

So my advice is to read, learn, share what you know with others, and don't be an Monday morning quarterback.

In my world this is known as a cascade of failures. 1,2,3,4, seemingly insignificant things that when they cascade together result in a life threatening failure. Reacting to the first insignificant thing can stop or slow the cascade. No loss of life is insignificant, certainly not a loss involving children.
We should wait until the full report is published, prior to passing judgment.
Eric

 

[Kings Gambit]

I will hold my comments & thoughts other than this..

Please remember this story, and try to actually consider those of us who strongly support, discuss and continually promote SAFE boating practices.

Remember that we are always the ones who get lambasted every single time we suggest doing things correctly, having the proper gear or suggesting against doing something that has not been proven to be a safe practice especially when it may cost a tad bit less than doing it safely, correctly or to the accepted safe boating standards....

So, the same wisdom and similar admonishment appear among the words of Admiral Nimitz, "The time for taking all measures for a ship's safety is while still able to do so. Nothing is more dangerous than for a seaman to be grudging in taking precautions lest they turn out to have been unnecessary. Safety at sea for a thousand years has depended on exactly the opposite philosophy."

 

[woodster]

the lessons learned in this tragedy are for the living ...it's a crying shame someone had to die for the lessons that are to be learned

 

[Piotr]

IMHO, this skipper probably was not "sailing", or motoring, 30 or more nautical miles offshore to transit from Sarasota Bay to Charlotte Harbor. Nobody who wanted to get there in under 12 hr would do that. That is where the "debris field" was found two days after the disaster. From the report of the cell phone call to the brother on Sunday afternoon, where the skipper gave his location as "off Englewood", and at the same time reported his distress, I suspect that the boat went down much closer to shore, and the floating items were driven offshore by the storm and other offshore wind over the two intervening days b/f the USCG search. If he were way out there, I doubt he would have known his location (assuming he actually did). So, yes, likely easily within VHF range of even a hand-held, fully charged up, and capable of transmitting on "high power." Also, whereas I too offer condolences to friends of this unfortunate family, I don't see how it can be said he did "nothing wrong." Perhaps, it could be said that his decision was made under circumstances against which blame for it should not be assigned in retrospect, but the decision itself, i.e., to take the outside route to Charlotte Harbor on that day, was clearly wrong, considering what happened. And if the weather forecast was known and ignored, or not believed, then worse than simply wrong. The comment above on the quality of the Seafarer line of yachts contributes to the appalling circumstance of an aged, poorly-constructed boat, in evident disrepair, with an outboard of who knows what reliability, taking off on a sea voyage of no less than 60 n.mi. lacking at least one or two items of basic safety equipment. I think we can all be sympathetic to those suffering life's misfortunes of job and family, but it's hard to sympathize too much with the prior tribulations of the skipper/father for this event. A 29-ft boat anchored at Marina Jack is not "a house"; it's a boat, on the water, and should always be treated with that point of view.

Seafarer sleeps 4, BTW...

 

[higgs]

This boat was not suitable to be taken on the outside under any conditions.

 

[druid]

A few comments, none of which are intended to reduce the tragedy of the event.

They say it was going for "repair" - that does not mean the boat was not seaworthy. Having lived aboard for many years, I can attest there are MANY things on a liveaboard boat that need fixing that have nothing to do with keeping it afloat!

I see that wearing a PFD isn't the "get out of jail free" card that some people seem to think it is. You can still drown even if wearing one. Keeping the boat afloat and staying ON it are more important than wearing a PFD. Same about a VHF - if they had one, could they have called a Mayday in time? Would they have been rescued? We'll never know...

I wonder what did happen? Most sailboats are incredibly seaworthy given half a chance. You might lose the mast, break the rudder, turn over... but they'll go on floating. Maybe James is right: they didn't secure the hatches and the boat rolled. (EDIT) I see she had a swing keel/centerboard. So probably not self-righting (especially given that most folks with centerboards do NOT lock them down!). Bad Idea to go "offshore" (even a little) on a boat like that.

druid

 

[Kings Gambit]

A few comments, none of which are intended to reduce the tragedy of the event.

They say it was going for "repair" - that does not mean the boat was not seaworthy. Having lived aboard for many years, I can attest there are MANY things on a liveaboard boat that need fixing that have nothing to do with keeping it afloat!

I see that wearing a PFD isn't the "get out of jail free" card that some people seem to think it is. You can still drown even if wearing one. Keeping the boat afloat and staying ON it are more important than wearing a PFD. Same about a VHF - if they had one, could they have called a Mayday in time? Would they have been rescued? We'll never know...

I wonder what did happen? Most sailboats are incredibly seaworthy given half a chance. You might lose the mast, break the rudder, turn over... but they'll go on floating. Maybe James is right: they didn't secure the hatches and the boat rolled. (EDIT) I see she had a swing keel/centerboard. So probably not self-righting (especially given that most folks with centerboards do NOT lock them down!). Bad Idea to go "offshore" (even a little) on a boat like that.

druid

The possibility that certain equipment might not save the lives of the victims if needed, or that a boat not in top seagoing condition might still float and survive a serious challenge, is not a justification for putting to sea w/o the equipment, or with a boat lacking in its top performance capability. There are many stories out there where the authors concluded..."I should have fixed that earlier...", or "I should have inspected that and replaced it...", or "I should have..."; or whatever. Probably few of us ever go to sea with the boat in absolute top condition w/ everything we might need, working perfectly, etc. We accept risks--but, as I said above, one needs to understand those risks, and know what to do in this or that contingency. This takes practice, experience, education, and reflection--AND---in my utmost humble opinion-- AVOIDANCE of risks that can be avoided with fairly simple alternatives. Among them: "I'll leave earlier instead of later..."; "I'll arrive b/f dark instead of after..."; "I'll carry two or three sets of ground tackle instead of one..."; "I'll have two or three VHF radios aboard instead of one...", etc.

 

[zeehag]

dad and daughter found dead.. what about the boys??

 

[Brian D]

I think they really need to find the boat to see what really happened.

 

[zeehag]

I think they really need to find the boat to see what really happened.

exactly

 

[kerryedwards]

search has been suspended

 

[zeehag]

damn

 

[JamesG161]

Well USCG should link into SBOForums for good advice on forensics.
What appears to have happened from the evidence and 78 posts here...
1) Stupidity
2) USCG should have been notified by brother or Captain Kimberly on Sunday Afternoon (not Tuesday) when the cell phone called worked.
3) It appears they lost the head sail (maybe no main) and their auxiliary engine would over heat, loose thrust in rolling seas and/or no fuel (see picture of boat). Therefore ADRIFT in highs seas.
4) From the fact of finding a make shift raft of bottles, and perhaps trying to tie together PFD's, using a flare, their personal info in a container. I looks like attempts or did, ABANDON SHIP.
5) The rest is speculation and perhaps this too.

People safety first!
Jim...

 

[Brian D]

So now we are CSI:SBO?

 

[kappykaplan]

Just great!!!