Metal lathe in the pacific northwest

[Hayden Watson]

Anyone in the western Washington area have a metal lathe I could use for 5 minutes? I need to remove 32-thousandths from the front pulley to fit the drive wheel in the Balmar belt kit given that they cannot read a micrometer.
When I told Balmar about the mis-fitting part their response was "Not my problem, we already got your money. Sucks to be you."

 

[Rich Stidger]

This speaks very poorly about Balmar. Maybe you could try again, and this time ask for the manager of manufacturing.

Alternatively, try the small metal shops near you. I had a local machine shop mill a plate on their Bridgeport and precision locate 8 holes. I provided the plate and they charged me $60 for their hour of labor. It was a while ago, so prices may be higher. But before you spend money and modify your OEM balance wheel/pulley, I would verify that all of the other parts in the kit are perfect for fit and alignment.
Discovery of another problem would be an automatic return to Balmar and demand a full refund. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Hayden Watson]

This speaks very poorly about Balmar. Maybe you could try again, and this time ask for the manager of manufacturing.

Alternatively, try the small metal shops near you. I had a local machine shop mill a plate on their Bridgeport and precision locate 8 holes. I provided the plate, and they charged me $60 for their hour of labor. It was a while ago, so prices may be higher. But before you spend money and modify your OEM balance wheel/pulley, I would verify that all of the other parts in the kit are perfect for fit and alignment.
Discovery of another problem would be an automatic return to Balmar and demand a full refund. Just my 2 cents.

I have talked to two people at balmar and so far, they tell me to pound sand. I demanded to speak to the manager, and they told me that "he is not here but I will pass on your request, and he might call you back" So either I chuck $480 in the trash, or I make the parts work together.

I will need to machine the balancer to fit the balmar drive wheel because there is not enough meat on the balmar wheel to allow the ID to be increased by 1/8". All of the other parts fit but I cannot check alignment because the drive wheel is the fixed point where it all starts. I will need to get it mounted and then adjust the others to align with the crank.

I will never buy anything else from balmar.

 

[dmax]

"I will never buy anything else from balmar"
That sucks, after hearing that, I won't either - such a shame as many of the companies in the marine industry ensure their customers have a good experience with their products, much more so than companies in general - it's good business as they are dealing with a very small, select demographic, losing customers is costly. We speak with our wallets.

 

[Rich Stidger]

OK, since you need to remove the balance wheel and pulley, here is a tip. I needed to do the same thing on my Volvo engine this past year when I replaced a water pump. Volvo had a special tool (that I didn't have) that would hold the crankshaft from turning. The crank bolt is likely tightened to 135 ft-lbs,, so removal is a problem. I solved that issue on my engine by using a Dewalt electric impact tool that was capable of 200 ft-lbs+. The bolt spun off immediately. The advantage of the impact tool is that it will exert the torque for a moment and loosen the bolt before the crank has a chance to turn. Then using a Harbor Freight puller set, I was able to easily remove the balance wheel.

I also recommend the liberal use of PB Blaster.

Re installation of the balance wheel requires some faith. You can't use a torque wrench because the crank will turn, so I just used the impact tool and gave it a short burst. Hope and a prayer that it is on tight enough and close enough to the torque spec to work. The engine running rotation should be in the direction that tightens the bolt. I ran the rest of the season with no problems.

Good Luck.

 

[Rich Stidger]

@Hayden Watson , Here is another idea.
Since you only need to remove a small amount of metal from the edge of the pulley, how about running the engine w/o any belt for a few minutes while you carefully use a large flat file to remove enough metal to slip on the new pulley. I think it would only take a few minutes before the engine heated up. Advantages would be not needing to remove the balance wheel, immediate removal of metal, and no delay scheduling with a machine shop, and $$ savings.
Of course you need a good sharp file that is tightly fitted with a wood handle and heavy work gloves. And all necessary personal protection gear. Unless the balance wheel is hardened steel, this could be a easy and quick solution.
And if it doesn't work, you can still take it off and go the machine shop route.

 

[Hayden Watson]

@Hayden Watson , Here is another idea.
Since you only need to remove a small amount of metal from the edge of the pulley, how about running the engine w/o any belt for a few minutes while you carefully use a large flat file to remove enough metal to slip on the new pulley. I think it would only take a few minutes before the engine heated up. Advantages would be not needing to remove the balance wheel, immediate removal of metal, and no delay scheduling with a machine shop, and $$ savings.
Of course you need a good sharp file that is tightly fitted with a wood handle and heavy work gloves. And all necessary personal protection gear. Unless the balance wheel is hardened steel, this could be a easy and quick solution.
And if it doesn't work, you can still take it off and go the machine shop route.

That was my first thought, but my concern is that I do not get it even all the way round which in itself would not affect the balance much. The problem would be that it could allow the outer ring to be slightly out of center and that would cause significant imbalance. I have found a machine shop about 30 miles from me that can do the job while I wait.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I finally got balmars screwup fixed and it only cost me $137. I needed to buy a 1/2 drive impact wrench ($38 HF sale price), a three-bolt dynamic balancer puller ($25) and a 29mm impact socket ($14 found at the last of 7 tool pushers in my town). I then found a machine shop that was willing to do the job and the time to do it this week while I waited that was only 31-miles from my house. He charged me $60 and did a fantastic job. So, for the low, low price of $137 plus 62-miles of gas plus 4-days of running about not doing what I should be doing, I have fixed balmar's mistake. I was thinking about getting a Wake Speed WS500 to control the new alternator but now understand that WS is in the same corporate family as Balmar so it will not go on my boat. The regulator will be either a Zeus or a Maax Pro-X.

I just wish that I did not have to look at that particular shade of blue every time I open my engine compartment because every time I see it, I see red!

 

[kappykaplan]

I just wish that I did not have to look at that particular shade of blue every time I open my engine compartment because every time I see it, I see red!

Please let us know how the installation and checkout goes. I feel certain you'll be quite successful after all your determination in fixing the foul-up!

 

[Marmalade]

@Hayden Watson heavy work gloves.

Had a coworker's glove snag in a lathe while polishing an axle, hold his finger right off his hand. In years of watching mandatory OSHA training that contained the most gruesome gloves and rings caught in rotating machinery, I highly advise restraining from wearing gloves around rotating equipment. YMMV

 

[Mark Maulden]

Hayden, what shop did you use?

 

[Maine Sail]

Who exactly did you speak with at Balmar?

Anyone in the western Washington area have a metal lathe I could use for 5 minutes? I need to remove 32-thousandths from the front pulley to fit the drive wheel in the Balmar belt kit given that they cannot read a micrometer.
When I told Balmar about the mis-fitting part their response was "Not my problem, we already got your money. Sucks to be you."

 

[Hayden Watson]

Who exactly did you speak with at Balmar?

I spoke with Balmar twice the first was Mark Gembree. Sorry, I do not know the name of the man that I talked to the second time. It was the second guy that I asked to speak with the manager. He told that the request would be passed along but it was unlikely I would receive a call back. He was correct. I have received no further communication from balmar.

I received an attached email form Mark Gembree. His comment does not hold water when all respondents to my question of balance wheel size came back with ø130mm and none that were ø128. I think I have heard from five other M25 and M25XP owners so the sample is not huge, but it is a 100% failure rate and that is significant. I called and talked to Mark, and he told me that Balmar would not offer any refund and it needed to come from the reseller, PKYS but that ø128mm "was within their tolerance.

I called PKYS and they told me that if there were any scuff they would not refund it because they could not resell it to another sucker, I mean customer. I explained that it was not a restocking return, it was a manufacturing defect return which should not be resold to another poor sailor only to get similarly screwed. They said that Balmar would not take a return from them, so I was stuck with it. Their unwillingness to advocate on my behalf is the reason I have included them in this tail.

One other thing to note is that the drive pulley in the MSE kit measures ø130.5mm. I am not yet a customer of his but in spite of that, he offered to sell me just the drive pulley so that I did not need to waste all of my money on a total replacement. That was great customer service, and I was not even a customer. Unfortunately, I did not read that email until I got back from the machine shop with a $137 hole in my pocket to fix Balmar's error.

 

[Hayden Watson]

Hayden, what shop did you use?

PBI Petrzelka Bros, Inc. Great guys and they did an excelent job of fixing Balmar's mistake. I handed him the two parts and he measured them boat and said "Wow, this is off by a mile!"

When I got there, I realized that this was the same shop I found to weld up the drive foil on my Hood 810. That was about 15-years ago and that weld is still working perfectly on another C30 in California.

Funny story about the PBI trip. As I was standing there explaining my tale of woe to the machinist, another client came in behind me. He interjected that he had heard bad reports on Balmar fitment. I looked around and he was holding a mixing elbow to an M25XP. He was a lurker forum member who had seen my posts of the previous days. Small world. That is why, as a business, owner, I myself always make it right with the customer regardless of the cost.

 

[BAD ORCA]

This sucks. If they are willing to screw over a customer with suck a minor part, how are they going to react with one of their more expensive alternator kits, and more importantly, what sort of shoddy build quality might we now expect for their higher end alts? Thanks for heads up on this. I was going to buy one of their high output alternator kits. Me thinks i'll look into alternatives now. Mads of Saillife had some issues with their alternator fitting correctly as well. I think he ended up custom making a part to fix it as well but i cant remember all the details.

There are always two sides to a story but 2mm tolerance on a machined part is a major **** up. If there are variations in a mating part, you machine to the largest variation, not the smallest. Have they fit ok previously and now these pulleys are incorrect i wonder? Maybe new manufacturing facility making them or just a big batch of them were wrong? Either way this is not good. If they were making them locally or in-house, it would be a non-issue to accept the part back and repair/replace it. My guess is they are manufactured in China now.

If it were me, i'd cancel the charge with my credit card company and let PKYS fight to get it back.

 

[Rich Stidger]

If it were me, i'd cancel the charge with my credit card company and let PKYS fight to get it back.

I second that. Cancel the sale with your CC company ASAP.

 

[BAD ORCA]

Had a coworker's glove snag in a lathe while polishing an axle, hold his finger right off his hand. In years of watching mandatory OSHA training that contained the most gruesome gloves and rings caught in rotating machinery, I highly advise restraining from wearing gloves around rotating equipment. YMMV

i did this in a drill press and it wrapped my finger around the drill bit like a pretzel. Almost tore it off but luckily was a low power drill press so was able to turn it off in an instant and stop the spinning. I have never worn gloves in the shop since or near anything that spins with more power than me.

 

[Mark Maulden]

PBI Petrzelka Bros, Inc. Great guys and they did an excelent job of fixing Balmar's mistake. I handed him the two parts and he measured them boat and said "Wow, this is off by a mile!"

When I got there, I realized that this was the same shop I found to weld up the drive foil on my Hood 810. That was about 15-years ago and that weld is still working perfectly on another C30 in California.

Funny story about the PBI trip. As I was standing there explaining my tale of woe to the machinist, another client came in behind me. He interjected that he had heard bad reports on Balmar fitment. I looked around and he was holding a mixing elbow to an M25XP. He was a lurker forum member who had seen my posts of the previous days. Small world. That is why, as a business, owner, I myself always make it right with the customer regardless of the cost.

I know where they are. Sometimes they are closed as they go out fishing. FYI, another good shop is Smiley’s in W. Mt. Vernon. They are owned by LaConner Maritime. Or maybe it’s the opposite. I had them take 2mm of my alternator forward mount…

 

[jviss]

I also had a bad experience with the Balmar serpentine kit for my Westerbeke 38B-FOUR. The bolts were too short for the pulley to mount on the flywheel pulley and I was told by the seller to go get longer bolts at the hardware store. And the belt was too short, and I was told to return it and wait for a replacement. Also the kit wouldn't work with my existing alternator adjustment bracket so I was 'offered' to purchase an expensive new arm. Never again will I buy a Balmar anything.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I also had a bad experience with the Balmar serpentine kit for my Westerbeke 38B-FOUR. The bolts were too short for the pulley to mount on the flywheel pulley and I was told by the seller to go get longer bolts at the hardware store. And the belt was too short, and I was told to return it and wait for a replacement. Also the kit wouldn't work with my existing alternator adjustment bracket so I was 'offered' to purchase an expensive new arm. Never again will I buy a Balmar anything.

Total support until the check clears.