This post is just to have a light hearted exchange of ideas about what to do about a "know-it-all" ex-sailor (who happens to be the first mates favorite uncle) that always takes my comments out of context and insists on imposing his Captn Bligh opinions on how my ship should be sailed. What to do, what to do? Does anyone have any perfect quotes, comments or anecdotes on how to reply without offending anyone? jb
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First of all you should thank him for sharing
that information and then tell him that you are impressed. You don't need to say if your impressions are positive or negative. Don't debate or correct him. That will only encourage him. You can tell him that you will take his advise under advisement and will consider it. Don't tell him what you will do with it or how little you value it.
that information and then tell him that you are impressed. You don't need to say if your impressions are positive or negative. Don't debate or correct him. That will only encourage him. You can tell him that you will take his advise under advisement and will consider it. Don't tell him what you will do with it or how little you value it.
Good Fences Make Good In-Laws
I MAY HAVE THIS ALL WRONG, but here's a shot in the dark… Jerry, from your language (and it's not much to go on) I get the impression that you're a "Really Nice Guy" who is in conflict with an "Obnoxious Boor." I'm a RNG at heart, but I've learned that I have to get out of my comfort zone at times to deal with OBs, in order to re-establish harmony and lower my own blood pressure. RNGs are great people to be with, make good friends, etc. But they're often not good at confrontation, and will politely endure the OB with patience, respect for his opinions, and courtesy, as we're all taught to do by our mothers (God bless them). To confront an OB is just against all nature and training for RNGs. The fact that he's family only complicates the issue. But who's absorbing all the stress here, on his own boat, fer cryin' out loud? This dynamic is about boundaries. He doesn't recognize one, so tresspasses. I see three basic choices: 1) Continue the way it is and absorb all the stress (not acceptable, or you would not be posting here) 2) Tell him straight up to shut the hell up when he's on your yacht. Diplomatically, of course; but clearly, too. OBs NEED to be shown the boundary, because they don't see it themselves. Since they are so socially inept, it's the right thing to do to show them they're crossing a line they are blind to. He can respond in two ways: he can accept the reality check (probable), and then the social dymanic shifts and re-settles into a much healthier state; or he is resentful/offended/whatever, in which case he'll go lick his wounds, and likely change his behavior anyway, since now he knows his expertise is not welcome. Grumbling, pouting about it or seeking solidarity among other family members must be seen as tactics to try to manipulate your RNG emotions. Don't play that game. Ignore it, and move on. Like a child, he'll abandon what doesn't work and reconcile himself to the new situation. It's your fear of the second response that keeps you from acting, and understandibly: you don't want to sow discord among your in-laws, and particularly don't want to cause your wife the awkwardness of being in the middle of an uncomfortable situation. But, like most RNGs, I think you are exaggerating that fear because you value harmony in relationships so highly. If the talk goes well, all is fine. If not, the only thing left to do is: 3) Stop inviting him onto your boat. Enjoy his company and salty opinions at family barbeques, & at Christmas, but stop inviting him aboard YOUR yacht. If he's not going to play nice, and he's a huge irritation, and isn't concerned with family harmony himself, why would you continue to offer invitations for him to come aboard? That outcome may even be hard for you to contemplate. But then, the problem shifts from him not recognizing a universal boundary, to you you not being willing to draw a justifiable boundary yourself. Good Luck and Fair Winds, Jeff
I MAY HAVE THIS ALL WRONG, but here's a shot in the dark… Jerry, from your language (and it's not much to go on) I get the impression that you're a "Really Nice Guy" who is in conflict with an "Obnoxious Boor." I'm a RNG at heart, but I've learned that I have to get out of my comfort zone at times to deal with OBs, in order to re-establish harmony and lower my own blood pressure. RNGs are great people to be with, make good friends, etc. But they're often not good at confrontation, and will politely endure the OB with patience, respect for his opinions, and courtesy, as we're all taught to do by our mothers (God bless them). To confront an OB is just against all nature and training for RNGs. The fact that he's family only complicates the issue. But who's absorbing all the stress here, on his own boat, fer cryin' out loud? This dynamic is about boundaries. He doesn't recognize one, so tresspasses. I see three basic choices: 1) Continue the way it is and absorb all the stress (not acceptable, or you would not be posting here) 2) Tell him straight up to shut the hell up when he's on your yacht. Diplomatically, of course; but clearly, too. OBs NEED to be shown the boundary, because they don't see it themselves. Since they are so socially inept, it's the right thing to do to show them they're crossing a line they are blind to. He can respond in two ways: he can accept the reality check (probable), and then the social dymanic shifts and re-settles into a much healthier state; or he is resentful/offended/whatever, in which case he'll go lick his wounds, and likely change his behavior anyway, since now he knows his expertise is not welcome. Grumbling, pouting about it or seeking solidarity among other family members must be seen as tactics to try to manipulate your RNG emotions. Don't play that game. Ignore it, and move on. Like a child, he'll abandon what doesn't work and reconcile himself to the new situation. It's your fear of the second response that keeps you from acting, and understandibly: you don't want to sow discord among your in-laws, and particularly don't want to cause your wife the awkwardness of being in the middle of an uncomfortable situation. But, like most RNGs, I think you are exaggerating that fear because you value harmony in relationships so highly. If the talk goes well, all is fine. If not, the only thing left to do is: 3) Stop inviting him onto your boat. Enjoy his company and salty opinions at family barbeques, & at Christmas, but stop inviting him aboard YOUR yacht. If he's not going to play nice, and he's a huge irritation, and isn't concerned with family harmony himself, why would you continue to offer invitations for him to come aboard? That outcome may even be hard for you to contemplate. But then, the problem shifts from him not recognizing a universal boundary, to you you not being willing to draw a justifiable boundary yourself. Good Luck and Fair Winds, Jeff
Any Chance
that the 1st mate is willing to talk with her / his favorite uncle and suggest that you both have your own way of doing things, they work for you and that while his comments are appreciated you prefer that he just sit back and enjoy the sail.????
that the 1st mate is willing to talk with her / his favorite uncle and suggest that you both have your own way of doing things, they work for you and that while his comments are appreciated you prefer that he just sit back and enjoy the sail.????
My advice would be
diplomacy. But that's advice I would give to someone who asked. What I would do personally is play the game! I love the know-it-alls on the dock. They're fun to play with and make for great conversation afterwards amognst all the people he annoys!! Does he come to your boat?? If not, you can just avoid talking sailing altogether and if he does talk about it, nod your head and agree when he rants. If he comes to you boat, have a plank ready and demand that he walk it...you are the captain after all!!!;D Really, there are so many different ways to handle it and I'm sure you'll get plenty of ideas, all of which will probably work in one way or another. The answer lies in what your personality is and how you think this will affect the relationship between you and your mate. Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
diplomacy. But that's advice I would give to someone who asked. What I would do personally is play the game! I love the know-it-alls on the dock. They're fun to play with and make for great conversation afterwards amognst all the people he annoys!! Does he come to your boat?? If not, you can just avoid talking sailing altogether and if he does talk about it, nod your head and agree when he rants. If he comes to you boat, have a plank ready and demand that he walk it...you are the captain after all!!!;D Really, there are so many different ways to handle it and I'm sure you'll get plenty of ideas, all of which will probably work in one way or another. The answer lies in what your personality is and how you think this will affect the relationship between you and your mate. Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
Make sure your insurance is up to date...
and have him skipper the boat from dock/mooring out for a day and back. Let him do it all while you relax. "Show me how it was done in your day. I really appreciate the insight."
and have him skipper the boat from dock/mooring out for a day and back. Let him do it all while you relax. "Show me how it was done in your day. I really appreciate the insight."
Two Southern Bells..one says to the other...
"My daddy bought me a white dress so I can go to the ball" The other says, "Thats nice" "My daddy bought me a white coach to go with my white dress so I can go to the ball". The other says,"Thats nice". "My daddy bought me a 2 white horses, to go with the white coach, to go with the white dress so I can go to the ball". The other says "Thats nice". "What did your daddy every do for you?" Well, my daddy sent me to finishing school, there they teach you how to say "thats nice" instead of F YOU! So, next time just say "thats nice" abe
"My daddy bought me a white dress so I can go to the ball" The other says, "Thats nice" "My daddy bought me a white coach to go with my white dress so I can go to the ball". The other says,"Thats nice". "My daddy bought me a 2 white horses, to go with the white coach, to go with the white dress so I can go to the ball". The other says "Thats nice". "What did your daddy every do for you?" Well, my daddy sent me to finishing school, there they teach you how to say "thats nice" instead of F YOU! So, next time just say "thats nice" abe
Actions speak louder than words
Like Donalex said, listen first. You may pick up some valuable info, and the guy probably means well. However - it's still your boat, and just because his way might be right, doesn't mean that your way is wrong. If you listen to his input, and decide that you like your way better, just do it YOUR way. Tie a line with the knot that YOU choose, take the heading that YOU choose, etc. If he does something his way without your permission, quietly re-do it YOUR way. Jeff would definitely classify me as a RNG, I hate arguing with people. But at least as far as family interaction goes, I've found that verbal arguments are often unnecessary - just do it your way, over and over, and they'll figure it out.
Like Donalex said, listen first. You may pick up some valuable info, and the guy probably means well. However - it's still your boat, and just because his way might be right, doesn't mean that your way is wrong. If you listen to his input, and decide that you like your way better, just do it YOUR way. Tie a line with the knot that YOU choose, take the heading that YOU choose, etc. If he does something his way without your permission, quietly re-do it YOUR way. Jeff would definitely classify me as a RNG, I hate arguing with people. But at least as far as family interaction goes, I've found that verbal arguments are often unnecessary - just do it your way, over and over, and they'll figure it out.
Rick, what's with the crack about psyche majors,
coming from an Airline Pilot with a boat named Whiskey Chaser.
I learned this advice from my old psyche guru. Next time you don't agree when he tells you what he thinks, simply reply with "I'm sure you do". Frank
coming from an Airline Pilot with a boat named Whiskey Chaser.
I learned this advice from my old psyche guru. Next time you don't agree when he tells you what he thinks, simply reply with "I'm sure you do". FrankFrank, I like that
At the very least "im sure you do" will get a pregnant pause of some sort. Hopefully not during a jibe. Or Jerry could add "yes, but what did you do when the gaff jaws jammed?" The guy is an ex-sailor, who might go a way back. By the way I looked up "psych with an e" (dan quail spelling) and it said "Psyche was the Greek concept of the self, encompassing the modern ideas of soul, self, and mind. The Greeks believed that the soul or "psyche" was responsible for behaviour". Also guru.. "In Western usage, the original meaning of guru has been extended to cover anyone who acquires followers, though not necessarily in an established school of philosophy or religion." As for our boat, she is appropriately named. One must always have a mission of some sort when sailing Must be the ex mil in me. K Frank, im resting comfortably on your couch PS. Just messin with ya, have the day off and its too hot to go outside here in Phoenix. Cheers
At the very least "im sure you do" will get a pregnant pause of some sort. Hopefully not during a jibe. Or Jerry could add "yes, but what did you do when the gaff jaws jammed?" The guy is an ex-sailor, who might go a way back. By the way I looked up "psych with an e" (dan quail spelling) and it said "Psyche was the Greek concept of the self, encompassing the modern ideas of soul, self, and mind. The Greeks believed that the soul or "psyche" was responsible for behaviour". Also guru.. "In Western usage, the original meaning of guru has been extended to cover anyone who acquires followers, though not necessarily in an established school of philosophy or religion." As for our boat, she is appropriately named. One must always have a mission of some sort when sailing
Must be the ex mil in me. K Frank, im resting comfortably on your couch PS. Just messin with ya, have the day off and its too hot to go outside here in Phoenix. Cheers
Two choices
#1 - Don't invite him on the boat any more and let the First Mate know why. or, #2 - Do what Anchor Down recommended- tell the guy you appreciate his experience but that on your boat you want to call the shots with no comments needed. If he wont do that then don't let him on your boat. If all of this is happening outside of the boat, for instance at family gatherings, just walk away from the guy. Life is too short. My guess is that you are not a confronter or you wouldn't be asking. So, I'd go with #1. The FM will ask why Uncle "Joe" isn't being asked along and you can tell her. Then, she (who likes the jerk) can figure out how to resolve it. It's her uncle, make it her problem.
#1 - Don't invite him on the boat any more and let the First Mate know why. or, #2 - Do what Anchor Down recommended- tell the guy you appreciate his experience but that on your boat you want to call the shots with no comments needed. If he wont do that then don't let him on your boat. If all of this is happening outside of the boat, for instance at family gatherings, just walk away from the guy. Life is too short. My guess is that you are not a confronter or you wouldn't be asking. So, I'd go with #1. The FM will ask why Uncle "Joe" isn't being asked along and you can tell her. Then, she (who likes the jerk) can figure out how to resolve it. It's her uncle, make it her problem.
WHAT A TURN OUT !!! - And quite a hoot !
I thought I'd get a reply or two, but this is amazing! No actually, this is the kind of great comradeship that exists among us. Even with occasional difficulties. I am going to apply a little of what everyone suggested. (No, that's not a cop out). I guess that's the RNG in me, but whom actually wants to provide a few "choice words" for the OB. But I do have to live with the first mate, after the fact. She had suggested that I just not respond, after his latest - and I quote: "well thought out and meaningful responses." But what made this so infuriating, is the fact that he has not actually set foot on our boat. This all began when I forwarded a few pictures of his lovely niece riding on the bow. But his only focus was an ongoing session of polite put-downs regarding my lack of sail shape, position of my jib blocks, etc, etc and my frivolous attitude toward enjoying myself while sailing. I must admit that I did goad him on a bit, but he's proceeded to make it personal and way too serious! I had said: Fie on me for having a little fun while sailing! And that really set him off! So, as Jack suggested - I think a little diplomacy is in order. Especially since we may be visiting over the holidays at year’s end. So I'm reluctant to ask the wife to do any fence mending. (Christ, She's the one with the temper!). But I like Rick’s reply: "yes, but what did you do when the gaff jaws jammed?" Grrreat nickname for him! I must use that at the appropriate time. Even though he has given some valuable comment, which I've readily acknowledged, I would just appreciate a little respect and those "universal boundaries", as mentioned by Jeff. I'm sure everyone would agree with that. I'm certainly not the confrontational type; I'd rather have a glass of wine and a laugh. So I won't be continuing the mind games with him. But if he ever jumps all over my deck again, I will be all up in his grille, in no uncertain terms. So there! I've thoroughly processed all this. Whew. THANKS TO ALL YOU GUYS!!! Who needs to PAY for therapy, when there's support like this? Meantime, should I forward him the picture of Rick’s dingy, trailing far behind and suggest that that is where he should put his comments? (Please! Don't anyone tempt me...) JERRY
I thought I'd get a reply or two, but this is amazing! No actually, this is the kind of great comradeship that exists among us. Even with occasional difficulties. I am going to apply a little of what everyone suggested. (No, that's not a cop out). I guess that's the RNG in me, but whom actually wants to provide a few "choice words" for the OB. But I do have to live with the first mate, after the fact. She had suggested that I just not respond, after his latest - and I quote: "well thought out and meaningful responses." But what made this so infuriating, is the fact that he has not actually set foot on our boat. This all began when I forwarded a few pictures of his lovely niece riding on the bow. But his only focus was an ongoing session of polite put-downs regarding my lack of sail shape, position of my jib blocks, etc, etc and my frivolous attitude toward enjoying myself while sailing. I must admit that I did goad him on a bit, but he's proceeded to make it personal and way too serious! I had said: Fie on me for having a little fun while sailing! And that really set him off! So, as Jack suggested - I think a little diplomacy is in order. Especially since we may be visiting over the holidays at year’s end. So I'm reluctant to ask the wife to do any fence mending. (Christ, She's the one with the temper!). But I like Rick’s reply: "yes, but what did you do when the gaff jaws jammed?" Grrreat nickname for him! I must use that at the appropriate time. Even though he has given some valuable comment, which I've readily acknowledged, I would just appreciate a little respect and those "universal boundaries", as mentioned by Jeff. I'm sure everyone would agree with that. I'm certainly not the confrontational type; I'd rather have a glass of wine and a laugh. So I won't be continuing the mind games with him. But if he ever jumps all over my deck again, I will be all up in his grille, in no uncertain terms. So there! I've thoroughly processed all this. Whew. THANKS TO ALL YOU GUYS!!! Who needs to PAY for therapy, when there's support like this? Meantime, should I forward him the picture of Rick’s dingy, trailing far behind and suggest that that is where he should put his comments? (Please! Don't anyone tempt me...) JERRY
I'd ask him
I'd say next time we can take his boat. Since he apparently doesn't have one, that should shut him up.
I'd say next time we can take his boat. Since he apparently doesn't have one, that should shut him up.
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