Mega 30, Head plumbing length/size

[Ethanhopps]

Hello! First post here so go easy on me... I bought a mega 30 (save the ugly comments, you're just jealous I don't need a crane!) I have it gutted and will be trying to keep it as simple and functional as possible.
My question right now is regarding the head. When I bought it it was very shabby from makeshift Workmanship and the toilet was on a piece of 1/2" mdf/linoleum tile board at the back right looking in the cabin from the cockpit(first picture), the holding tank is at the back corner of the same side of the boat, stainless in good shape. Switchintoglideiii has his walled in and done very nice in the same location, but I'm young and don't mind not having the headspace in the toilet but would rather have it for the galley, table, etc. The original design was up front in the bow and the floor is nicely molded for it(second picture). So I'd like to put it back up there but... The good stainless tank is at the back. Is it ok to run a 1-1/4" hose 15-20 feet from the head to the tank??? The problem I see is volume, you're going to need a lot of water and pumping to actually move the waste from the head to the tank, and then a lot of water sitting in the pipe. I'm new to this so maybe it's not an issue maybe it is. Any help appreciated and stay safe and work on the boat!

 

[dlochner]

Can you move the tank? If not, make the hose run downhill as much as possible. Once the stuff is pumped to the top of the hill, it will run down into the tank without additional water.

Also, most sanitation hose is 1 ½", not 1 ¼".

 

[Ethanhopps]

the tank is formed to the hull shape, I'll take a picture later. I could maybe bring it forward about a foot or 2 but why bother for that little. good to know about the hose size my bad.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Hi and welcome to sbo.com! I'll be happy to help you spec out your sanitation system...

1. Holding tank That SS tank needs to go...here's why: In the 1980s when holding tanks began to be required on boats, aluminum and steel were the materials of choice because they were less expensive and easier to cut and weld in odd shapes than rotationally molded polyethylene. But although you’ll still find aluminum or stainless holding tanks on some boats, by the early 1990s, it had become apparent that metal is a very bad choice for sewage holding because urine is one of the most corrosive materials it’s possible to put next to any metal. While the sheet metal walls of a metal holding tank may last up to a decade (rarely any longer once it’s actually put in use to hold sewage), metal waste tanks, even 316 stainless steel, will typically begin to leak at a seam or a fitting within two to five years. You may be able to repair it, but the first leak is always just the first leak; the bottom of the tank is gradually turning into a colander. Stainless steel will last a little longer than aluminum, but even the best 316 stainless holding tanks rarely lasts more than 10 years no matter how diligent you are about pumping out and thoroughly rinsing out the tank every time you use the boat, never allowing waste to sit in it. Whether the toilet flushes with salt or fresh water makes no difference.

The good news is, replacing it with a plastic tank will make it possible to move the head and tank forward to where it used to be and should be. Ronco Plastics (no relation to the VegoMatic Ronco) is your best source for a tank. They make TOP quality thick-walled water and waste tanks for a very reasonable price and have more than 400 shapes and sizes, over 100 of which are non-rectangular, and they install fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they make the tank. There are retailers who sell Ronco tanks, but Ronco sells direct for a much lower price...and they're great to work with. This is Ronco Plastics current "boat tank" catalog: Ronco Plastics marine Tanks Fortunately they've also continued to provide a link to their "old catalog" which IMO is a whole lot easier to use when you're trying to find the size/shape you need Ronco Plastics old marine catalog.

2: Toilet I'm sure you already know that it needs to be replaced. The Raritan PH SuperFlush is your best choice. It's the current version of their tried and true PHII manual toilet, which has been--and continues to be--the top-rated manual toilet since they introduced it in 1983. Keep it well lubricated, replace the joker valve annually and put a rebuild kit in it every 5-6 years (about $60) and it'll remain reliable and trouble free for at least 20 years. Your current bowl, seat and lid seem to be still in good shape and will fit the PH base, so you may be able to save $$ by buying the pump and base assembly.

3. Hoses All hose sizes use their INNER diameter (ID)...(I suspect you used the outer diameter OD) when measuring yours. Dave is correct...the standard size for toilet discharge hoses and tank inlet and pumpout/discharge hose is 1.5"...there a few toilets that use a 1" discharge hose...all toilet intake hoses are 3/4". No, it is NOT ok to run a toilet discharge 15-20 feet! It needs to be no longer than about 6' unless it has plenty of help from gravity 'cuz that's about as far a bowl contents can move in the amount time anyone wants to spend pumping a manual toilet.
Raritan SaniFlex hose Raritan Saniflex Sanitation Hose is the best sanitation hose today. It's proven to be odor permeation proof and has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent like a hairpin without kinking and is available for a VERY reasonable price.

That covers the basics....I'll be glad to help you work out the details and answer all your questions, here in the forum or privately...so feel free to ask. And if you'll pardon a little shameless self-promotion...I've written a book that I think you'll find useful (see link in my signature)....title (my publisher's idea) is a bit misleading...'cuz although it does deal with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to install, operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em. 'Cuz you get to do any preventive maintenance on your terms when it's convenient...the need to cure a problem never happens when it is! And as I said above, I'm always glad to answer any questions it doesn't.

--Peggie

 

[dlochner]

Yes, you should buy Peggie's Book it is worth the money, I forgot to mention that. See the link in her signature.

 

[Ethanhopps]

Well I was planning on a new head but if it's going to cost me over a $1000 for a new waste system I'll go without for now and this is useful info for if I install one in the future

 

[dlochner]

As with most systems on a boat, make a realistic assessment of your needs. Often what we think we need, is more than what we really need.

How often will you need the head? Are you a day sailor, weekend cruiser, or going out for weeks at a time. What about pump outs, is this convenient?

If you are a daysailer or weekend a less expensive head with a smaller tank may be appropriate. If the boat is going to be used for extensive cruising where pump outs are few and far between, then a better head and larger tank will be necessary.

Buy Peggie's book and then work with her to design a system that meets your needs.

 

[Daveinet]

... but I'm young and don't mind not having the headspace in the toilet but would rather have it for the galley, table, etc....

Just my opinion, but if you have been swimming and then need to use the little room, its a pain trying to pull up wet swim trunks when you can't stand up all the way. Even worse if you wear a wet suit. You could just tuck it further aft. That would give you more room around the table. The biggest problem is fitting the door next to the steps. If you can angle the steps, or integrate them into the door, so when the door opens, the steps move, that could solve that.
At one point I was going to buy a Mega 30 and had plans for the interior. When I went to look at it the deck was very soft. It seemed like to big of a project to fix. The cockpit was soft and flaking the gel coat. The hull was solid. So how is your deck? These boats are notorious fro soft decks.

 

[Ethanhopps]

Just my opinion, but if you have been swimming and then need to use the little room, its a pain trying to pull up wet swim trunks when you can't stand up all the way. Even worse if you wear a wet suit. You could just tuck it further aft. That would give you more room around the table. The biggest problem is fitting the door next to the steps. If you can angle the steps, or integrate them into the door, so when the door opens, the steps move, that could solve that.

yes good point, I guess the way I look at it is if I was ever to wear a wetsuit which I only ever did once to try air-chairing (sounds cool, don't try it lol) I would just pull it down in the main area and tell my friends to close their eyes or their loss. where the toilet would sit at the back underneath the deck rather than the cabin it's not much taller than the bow and I don't think the room would be handy for changing no matter where it is. interesting to know about the deck, seems really good I've jumped on it and don't feel any movement, the bones are in good shape, keel isn't even rusty, just had a really garbage interior. I don't think it's spent much of its life in the water

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

There is an inexpensive solution that provides everything you need to have toilet facilities including a holding tank for about $200: a self-contained system called an "MSD" portapotty. The "MSD" designation in the model name/number means it has fittings for a pumpout line and vent line, and is designed to be permanently installed (actually just sturdier brackets than portables, so you could still take it off the boat if you absolutely have to), which means that although it's still called a PORTApotty, you don't have to carry anything off the boat to empty it.

A 5-6 gallon model holds 50-60 flushes...you'd need at least a 30 gal tank to hold that many from a manual marine toilet. No plumbing needed except a vent line and pumpout hose--so no new holes in the boat...and -0- maintenance needed except for rinsing out the tank--which you can do with a hose or a bucket while it's being pumped out. Total cost including the pumpout hose and vent line is about $200--a fraction of what you'd spend for toilet, tank and all the related plumbing needed. And the best part is, you have all the advantages of a toilet and holding tank without giving up a single square foot of storage space. With enough tank capacity to last you and a couple of guests through a weekend.

Is it a permanent solution? Prob'ly not...but it'll buy you time to have enough economic recovery to install the system you'll like for the long haul.

Check out the Thetford 550P MSD and the Dometic/SeaLand 975MSD Sanipottie. Thetford has discontinued the 550P MSD, but many retailers still have it in stock...the Dometic is still in production. Both are comparable (excellent) quality.

--Peggie

 

[Ethanhopps]

There is an inexpensive solution that provides everything you need to have toilet facilities including a holding tank for about $200: an "MSD" portapotty. The "MSD" designation in the model name/number means it has fittings for a pumpout line and vent line, and is designed to be permanently installed (actually just sturdier brackets than portables, so you could still take it off the boat if you absolutely have to), which means that although it's still called a PORTApotty, you don't have to carry anything off the boat to empty it.

A 5-6 gallon model holds 50-60 flushes...you'd need at least a 30 gal tank to hold that many from a manual marine toilet. No plumbing needed except a vent line and pumpout hose--so no new holes in the boat...and -0- maintenance needed except for rinsing out the tank--which you can do with a hose or a bucket while it's being pumped out. Total cost including the pumpout hose and vent line is about $200--a fraction of what you'd spend for toilet, tank and all the related plumbing needed. And the best part is, you have all the advantages of a toilet and holding tank without giving up a single square foot of storage space. With enough tank capacity to last you and a couple of guests through a weekend.

Is it a permanent solution? Prob'ly not...but it'll buy you time to have enough economic recovery to install the system you'll like for the long haul.

Check out the Thetford 550P MSD and the Dometic/SeaLand 975MSD Sanipottie. Thetford has discontinued the 550P MSD, but many retailers still have it in stock...the Dometic is still in production. Both are comparable (excellent) quality.

--Peggie




Check out the Thetford 550P MSD and the Dometic/SeaLand 975MSD Sanipottie

Thanks Peggy, I got the boat free and with the current times I don't have the ability to do a 15k restoration, nor would I ever want to put that much money into said boat when they're never worth that, my order bill for primers/paints/coatings today was hefty enough. I was looking at an option I think I could afford, how much time in a holding tank setup would 12gallons buy me? this boat will primarily be a weekender with bathroom access so the head I'm adding mostly for emergency, maybe if I do some great lakes trips it'll be 4-5 days max between pumpouts with 2 aboard.

 

[Daveinet]

When I was saying about moving it further aft, I was assuming just enough space in front of it to stand up. In other words, when you sit down, you are under the benches, when you stand up, you are just in front of the benches.
I don't have the actual measurement from the keel to the cockpit. I remember seeing it, but didn't actually take measurements to see what would fit. One thought would be to build a slide out, so when someone is using the little room, the wall slides out and blocks the cockpit entrance. Once they exit, it slides back in. Look up Winnebago LeSharo motorhome toilet. Go to 4:10 for the toilet demonstration.