I dont care what any of the advertisements claim about fuel additives for Ehthanol gas. Its all snake oil in my opinion. I have a 1994 Yamaha Pro50 on my Boston Whaler. The boat gets used alot in spring and summer but less in autumn and winter. Ever since Ive owned the motor, Id have to take it to the mechanic every year to for some part in the fuel system to be replaced. Even though I was using Sta-bil. Two years ago, I stopped using Ehtanol and started paying more for Rec-90 gas at the locl marina. What a difference. The motor runs better. Is more reliable and hasnt been to the shop on a fuel related issue since then.
Me and outboards...
- Thread starter Brian D
- Start date
If a 2.5 HP motor is satisfactory for your boat and sailing conditions, there is NO reason to mess with a carb. You can buy an 86lbs thrust trolling motor on Ebay right now for 129 bucks. Buy two 12 volt 100ah batteries for about $100 bucks each. So for about $350 bucks, you will have a motor that will always start, and has more low end thrust than your gas outboard. Might even have a better top speed too.
This the setup I am running and it is wonderful. Perfectly quiet. Always starts. DW has no trouble flipping it down and putting it in the water if I were to be an MOB. You have tons better control for docking. Did I say it is dead quiet? If not, then let me say it is dead quiet...
This the setup I am running and it is wonderful. Perfectly quiet. Always starts. DW has no trouble flipping it down and putting it in the water if I were to be an MOB. You have tons better control for docking. Did I say it is dead quiet? If not, then let me say it is dead quiet...
That is exactly my experience with my 3.5 motor-san. I was ready to push it off the stern of my dingy. I replaced the bowl which had become corroded inside and the gasket. I cleaned it up good and put a filter in at someone's Rx. It has tamed that motor from a beast into a cuddly cub.
I owned the same motor for several years. In the end I found the tiny, tiny passage in the fuel delivery/carb to be so fine they easily and often can clog or varnish, so to speak, and not idle properly. Mine used to always start on more throttle but not on idle throttle. I had the main jet bored out a tiny bit and that helped. Ultimately, I sold that motor and bought a Tohatsu 3.5 that has never let me down. The tradeoff of course is it is heavier.
Back before I thought myself to clean small outboard carburetors I had two carbs get fouled by ethanol gas and paid way too much money for an outboard shop to get them running. Someone suggested aviation gas. I have been running aviation gas in my small outboards now for ten years. No more problems. In some places you can still get non ethanol fuel. That works too. I would never run ethanol fuel in my small outboards. The AV gas also will be ok next season.
Brian,
I feel your pain having disassembled all the carbs on my small engines. Outboard, string trimmer, etc. I regret to tell you that cleaning the carb is really the solution. And it is not that difficult. However, I have a friend who owns a marina and services outboards from small to large and he tells me that the small 4-cycle outboards (under 10hp) have a special problem. That problem is that the passages and metering jet holes are so small that merely soaking the disassembled carb in a gallon of carb cleaner is not totally effective. His claim is that to effectively clean these carbs you need to put the parts into an ultrasonic cleaner with the carb cleaner. He also says that the 2-cycle carbs have larger passages and ultrasonic cleaning of those is not as important. Taking his advice, even though I have 2-cycle engines, I bought a small ultrasonic cleaner on eBay. If you have one, or access to one, use it. Or take the carb off and find a dealer who can clean it properly.
When I have cleaned my outboard carb (Nissan 3.5hp, 2-cycle) I have found a lot of the white scummy deposits from aluminum corrosion- a direct result of ethanol+moisture.
I am convinced that the ethanol fuel that we are forced to use is the root of most small engine problems. I think if you find and switch to non-ethanol your problems will vanish. Go to http://pure-gas.org/ to find ethanol-free fuel near you.
Sounds a lot like a float not floating due to corrosion... What we've done with small displacement bikes is remove the fuel line and put a temp line on to a funnel and poured seafoam down there or carb cleaner. Let it sit. Then attach fuel and fire up.
I have that same engine, 2016 model. And I turn the fuel off and let it idle when I'm gonna put it away for more than a couple days. No fuel in the carb then. Also we put fuel stabilizer and enzyme treatment in the gas can we use for it and the Yamaha generator. No issues yet. Although this is the first year with that motor. I don't foam my engines over winter anymore. Just run them dry, remove the plug, spray some WD40 and insert new plug along with change oil as part of the maintenance. The last engine was a Chinese made Hyfong. Nobody steals them and they actually work well. It's 5yrs old, runs well and I still have it. However it's LOUD and pulling into Ego Alley in Annapolis at 6am with it even at idle had to be annoying so we bought the lightest and quietest outboard out there, Suzuki. I had a 9.9 on my old 24' sailboat, loved it.
I have that same engine, 2016 model. And I turn the fuel off and let it idle when I'm gonna put it away for more than a couple days. No fuel in the carb then. Also we put fuel stabilizer and enzyme treatment in the gas can we use for it and the Yamaha generator. No issues yet. Although this is the first year with that motor. I don't foam my engines over winter anymore. Just run them dry, remove the plug, spray some WD40 and insert new plug along with change oil as part of the maintenance. The last engine was a Chinese made Hyfong. Nobody steals them and they actually work well. It's 5yrs old, runs well and I still have it. However it's LOUD and pulling into Ego Alley in Annapolis at 6am with it even at idle had to be annoying so we bought the lightest and quietest outboard out there, Suzuki. I had a 9.9 on my old 24' sailboat, loved it.
Does it not idle (stalls at idle) but perhaps stays running if you fire it up and then throttle up (I assume you can try this by sticking the leg in a container of water for cooling - otherwise your impeller will be toast)? If so, it may be a clogged idle (aka low speed) jet. On my Honda 8HP that is easily accessible from the top of the carb, and when I can't idle well I unscrew it, push a thin plastic "wire" through the tiny orifice, and then blast with some spray carb cleaner. If your idle jet is similarly accessible try that - very easy and can't hurt. If that fails, well, I don't know what the cost of your carb is, but I have removed and disassembled and soaked my carb and while it is a bit tedious, it isn't all that hard.
Also, the iBoats site specializes in outboard discussions, and has brand specific areas. There is one for Yamaha and Suzuki. I find that there are a few real Honda experts (pro mechanics) that provide all kinds of advice that can be quite specific. They almost always recommend to 1) use real carb dip if you are going to clean the body, not just the spray 2) run the motor dry such as by disconnecting the hose from the external tank if you have one after each use, unless you are going back in a few days.
Peter
Also, the iBoats site specializes in outboard discussions, and has brand specific areas. There is one for Yamaha and Suzuki. I find that there are a few real Honda experts (pro mechanics) that provide all kinds of advice that can be quite specific. They almost always recommend to 1) use real carb dip if you are going to clean the body, not just the spray 2) run the motor dry such as by disconnecting the hose from the external tank if you have one after each use, unless you are going back in a few days.
Peter
I pretty much scanned the other posts to your question and agree with most in that your number one enemy is Ethanol Based Fuel. I will not use it. Fortunately here in Florida we do have Marine Grade Recreation Fuel. If don't have access to that, check out your local airport and get aviation grade 100 or 110 octane ethanol free fuel. Use the marine grade stabilizer. Several other things to consider are, 1st, if you have been using ethanol fuel and allowing it to sit and not run the system dry, consider that the fuel lines have deteriorated and that when you get the engine going after cleaning the carb that small bits of decomposed rubber are finding their way into the carb to clog it up again. So, you may wish to replace all your fuel lines with new rubber that is ethanol resistant. Secondly, don't overlook tearing apart and cleaning and putting back together your fuel pump as well. You will be amazed at the rust, crud, vanish and other contamination that is sitting there. All of the liquid is gone BTW. Just dry crud and contamination is all you will find.
All your advise is truly welcomed. I will remove the carb today. I had the same issue on my Yamaha 9.9 several years ago. That was caused by me not being here (working in Afghanistan) and letting old gas sit in the bowl (lesson learned there). So now I see the lesson was not really learned. LOL
OK... carb coming off this afternoon. I already ordered a new gasket for when I will put the carb back on. I looked to see if I could order just the bowl, but that has been discontinued. The replacement complete carb is $115. Small price. I should get one and also get a Yamaha carb just in case.
Thanks again for all your encouragement.
OK... carb coming off this afternoon. I already ordered a new gasket for when I will put the carb back on. I looked to see if I could order just the bowl, but that has been discontinued. The replacement complete carb is $115. Small price. I should get one and also get a Yamaha carb just in case.
Thanks again for all your encouragement.
A few years ago my Yamaha 8 HP started giving me a problem and usually when we would go on our club cruises for a few weeks would always acting up.
It seemed each year it needed repair $100 + each year and even took carb off myself and cleaned all the jets and some times it worked but not always would run very well,I started on a new carb not sure but think $100 and started using
Ethanol free gas and seafoam and do not drain it except for maybe when I go up north July and august I let it run out of gas gas oil mix.
So far every year it starts right up and runs really good,did have a gas tank hose problem but all is good and it keeps running great and a real believer in ethanol free gas and seafoam in tank.
Nick
It seemed each year it needed repair $100 + each year and even took carb off myself and cleaned all the jets and some times it worked but not always would run very well,I started on a new carb not sure but think $100 and started using
Ethanol free gas and seafoam and do not drain it except for maybe when I go up north July and august I let it run out of gas gas oil mix.
So far every year it starts right up and runs really good,did have a gas tank hose problem but all is good and it keeps running great and a real believer in ethanol free gas and seafoam in tank.
Nick
Thinwater gave good instructions. I also use a correctly sized screwdriver to remove the Jets and spray clean with carb cleaner. I use non ethonal gas, and if I do not run at least once a month the Jets will clog. When setting for over two months, I have even had the filter clog. The non ethonal gas evaporates leaving behind blue flakes about the size of dandruff.
When having my lawn tractor serviced I asked the tech about ethanol and he said it was the best thing ever for their business - it seems the needle and seats are damaged by the ethanol requiring replacement to get the engine running again. Any small engine will benefit from fuel without any ethanol. I suspect the same is true of all the millions if engines being driven daily but I haven't seen any white papers I consider trustworthy to validate that thought. But I suspect the large corn industry would put pressure on any publication that would print it.
Just don't be looking into the throat of the carb when you spray up through the main jet or you might get an eye full of carb cleaner yourself. It only happened once but that was enough to teach me...What do you mean "again"?gaskets and float valve needle (viton tipped) do not appreciate soaking in carb cleaner. it's too simple to just take the carb off the motor, remove the float bowl, spray through the jets with aerosol carb cleaner with the "straw" inserted in the nozzle, blow carb dry with air , reassemble and run. it's so easy even you could do it.
Sam
Where are you getting your gas? Blue fuel dye is used to denote Aviation 100LL fuel. I have never had a issue with the dye bein left behind when the fuel evaporates away, which happens really quickly on a hot day.
Sam
You don't need a new carb. You simply need to clean the goo out of the jets & fuel bowl. Its a screwdriver job
Ethanol fuel cleans dirt and water out of your entire fuel system. It collects in the fuel bowl, and coagulates if you let it sit for months. Run the engine dry every day you use it is good practice. But if you forget:
Most carbs have a drain screw on the fuel bowl. Modern fuels in non-fuel injections (outboards, old cars) systems go stale in weeks. They lose their VOC'S in vented (carb) systems. Use the bowl drain to get the old stale fuel out and let the accumulated goo out before it reaches the jets.
Also keep in mind your auxiliary tank if left outside or not completely cleaned out periodically can be where you introduce (dirt &) water thru leaks and condensation. Ethanol is a big pain in the nuts on a good day. / Dave
Ethanol fuel cleans dirt and water out of your entire fuel system. It collects in the fuel bowl, and coagulates if you let it sit for months. Run the engine dry every day you use it is good practice. But if you forget:
Most carbs have a drain screw on the fuel bowl. Modern fuels in non-fuel injections (outboards, old cars) systems go stale in weeks. They lose their VOC'S in vented (carb) systems. Use the bowl drain to get the old stale fuel out and let the accumulated goo out before it reaches the jets.
Also keep in mind your auxiliary tank if left outside or not completely cleaned out periodically can be where you introduce (dirt &) water thru leaks and condensation. Ethanol is a big pain in the nuts on a good day. / Dave
Best thing about owing a DF 2.5 is how good of shape you get in rowing ... I live aboard on a mooring (1/2 mile from shore) I bought a new motor & in the first 6 months It needed a new carb & it still never ran right ... I rowed more then motored .. I was more then happy to toss it in the dumpster
I bought a new Merc 4 hp been taking me back n forth from shore for 5 years now & its been under water more time (once 3 weeks) then I care to remember sea lions storms etc.& all i had to do was flush it out change the oil & it was ready to go!
I live aboard on a mooring (1/2 mile from shore) I bought a new motor & in the first 6 months It needed a new carb & it still never ran right ... I rowed more then motored .. I was more then happy to toss it in the dumpsterI bought a new Merc 4 hp been taking me back n forth from shore for 5 years now & its been under water more time (once 3 weeks) then I care to remember sea lions storms etc.& all i had to do was flush it out change the oil & it was ready to go!
Well, got her running. It is rough but it is running.
Sprayed some Yamaha Carburetor Cleaner through the intake and it fired up long enough for me to play with the throttle and choke. Still need to clean the jets, I know. But at least it is running so that is half the battle. Fresh fuel is being used, obviously, and added the appropriate amount of Seafoam.
So I will be playing with it this week. When I get the new gasket I will clean out the jets.
Sprayed some Yamaha Carburetor Cleaner through the intake and it fired up long enough for me to play with the throttle and choke. Still need to clean the jets, I know. But at least it is running so that is half the battle. Fresh fuel is being used, obviously, and added the appropriate amount of Seafoam.
So I will be playing with it this week. When I get the new gasket I will clean out the jets.
Don't feel bad about your troubles... I just got a used 2010 Suzuki DF6, runs perfectly because the P.O. had it serviced with a new impeller and carb. I noticed several small things on the motor that were clues he had not done any regular maintenance on the motor since it was new, hence why the carb and impeller needed total replacement. Biggest clue was that the zincs were completely eaten away. Of course, like a dummy, I tried to get the tiny 6mm bolts to come out without soaking them in PB blaster for a week. Not only did the first one break clean off, I proceeded directly breaking the second one off as well. I just got done with a several day long frustrating process of drilling the broken studs out, now I have to tap them oversize for new bolts.
Anyway, where do you get your zincs? Unlike newer Suzuki outboards, mine has two... A small rectangle just above the cavitation plate on the starboard side and then a round one above the water line on the port side. I've looked up several online sources but without the Suzuki part numbers I'm not 100% sure I'm looking ta the right ones.