MD6A starter fuse

Jan 17, 2005
99
I want to install a fuse in the MD6A starter circuit.
What should be the amperage of such a fuse ?

I have an MD6A with an original starter-generator.

Marcin
V1958 "Lotta"
 
Sep 24, 2008
346
It depends on the wire size. You can use a fuse as large as 150% of the ampacity of the wire, but I prefer to keep it to 100% or a bit less. So the larger the wire the larger the fuse can be. I usually wire batteries and starting circuits with at least 1/0, more often 2/0. I usually fuse at 250 amps using an ANL fuse close to the batteries. Too small a fuse will cause nuisance blows. I have never had this issue with the wire sizes I use and the bonus of the large wire is faster starting.
 
Sep 24, 2008
346
The fuse is there for protection from a short. It is there to protect the wire and you do not want it to blow when starting the engine. An ANL fuse is ideally suited for this as it can handle about 150% of its rating for about 500 seconds - over 8 minutes. In a short circuit situation it will blow in milliseconds. Properly wired with 1/0 or 2/0 and good connections an engine in good condition should start in 4 or 5 seconds. A lessor fuse is not suited to this as its AIC rating is too low.
 
Feb 13, 2010
528
AS far as I know those engines never had a fuse for the starter.
The starter celenoid acts as a starter fuse and will burn out if
shorted. Mine has no fuse other than a little 25 amp one that
protects the entire wiring engine system. There are none on the
starting cables at all and the engine drawings show none.
--
Doug Pollard
Albin Vega Sea Legs 2225
KK4YGO

On 06/04/2014 02:44 AM, Marcin Palacz
palacz@... [AlbinVega] wrote:
 
Sep 24, 2008
346
I agree there was not a fuse originally. That goes for any engine. But it is a very good idea. If a wire chafes through or a battery comes adrift the solenoid will not help you. The wire will be fire starting hot in a few seconds. That is what the fuse is for.
ABYC doesn't require fuses for dedicated starting circuits. Dedicated means a battery that can only be used for starting. If you have 2 banks with a 1/2/both switch you do not have a dedicated starting circuit and ABYC does require a fuse. The exception for dedicated starting circuits is because it is hard, expensive, or impossible to fuse a starting circuit for a large engine - say a 500 hp Cummins. Our engines are easily fused and it is a good idea for safety reasons.
Fusing in most cases is to protect the wire, not the item creating the load. The goal is always for the fuse to go before the wire catches fire. In line fuses for electronics are there to protect the device.
 
Feb 13, 2010
528
Brian, my cables are not fused and It just dawned on me the my
starter cables are about 2/0 but my Ground cable is only about 6/0
or maybe 8/0 no wonder my starter seems a little slugish. That is
likely the reason. I will replace that small ground cable when I go
to the boat this coming week. It's funny I saw it but it didn't
really sink in.
--
Doug Pollard
Albin Vega Sea Legs 2225
KK4YGO


On 06/04/2014 09:55 AM, Brian Stannard
brianstannard@... [AlbinVega] wrote:
 
Jan 17, 2005
99
Once, I managed to make a short, somewhat, and I noticed it when clouds
of a black smoke started to fill the cabin. Indeed, one of the thick
wires catched fire ...

I switched off the main switch and extinguished the fire easily. There
was no damage except the wire. Since then I anyway believe that it is a
good idea to have a fuse close to the batteries in all the circuits,
including the starter circuit....

Marcin
V1958 "Lotta"
 
Marcin, Group,Long ago, when Methuselah was a boy, I worked for Simms Motor Units in the development labs. Although not personally involved, Simms made starter motors for diesel engines. One of the specifications was the "locked armature current draw" which was the current that the starter would draw from the battery if the motor would not turn and is the maximum current the motor would draw except under fault conditions. In fact the starter was not designed to stand this sort of abuse, for that is what it was, for more than 10 seconds continuously.
However, if you can find this figure - sometimes given in detailed service/testing information, that is figure that the starter circuit should be fused at. I have had a brief search of the net for Dynastart info. with no success. One type of 3.5 inch starter fitted to small car diesels is rated at 720A locked armature and that may be a good starting figure. My engine manual (Beta BZ482) suggests a cranking current of around 400A.
The simple rule is that there is no simple rule. Geoff#################################################Geoff Blake, G8GNZ JO01fq: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
geoff@... or melecerties@...Using Linux: Ubuntu 11.04 on Intel or Debian on UltraSparc
and Apple OS X 10.8.2 Mountain Lion on my Macbook Pro. Avoiding Micro$oft like the plague.#################################################
 
Feb 13, 2010
528
It is always a good idea to have every circuit fused or with a
breaker. Still for the last hundred years there have been none on
auto starters airplane starters or boat starters. Volvo did not
think it necessary. If my heavy starter cable shorts out I will hear
it and I will see the flash. I think a fuse is a good thing but I
don't see it as necessary. A 16 gauge wire is another matter as I
may not hear it arc and likely will not see it flash so it won't be
hard to start a fire unseen. On a bigger boat where the engine room
may be closed up and arcing may not be seen or heard. There is real
danger. Still it's easy and cheap to fuse the starter cable so why
not??

On 06/04/2014 01:59 PM, Marcin Palacz
palacz@... [AlbinVega] wrote:
 
Sep 24, 2008
346
DougI don't doubt your negative cables are small as you say but 4/0 is the largest wire. From largest to smallest 4/0, 3/0, 2/0, 1/0, 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and on to the smallest you should use on a boat 16 gauge.
 
Sep 24, 2008
346
GeoffNo reason to use such a large fuse for several reasons. The fuse must blow before the wire catches fire. Even the largest wire - 4/0 - is only rated for 378 amps in an engine space. Remember the fuse is there to protect the wire, nothing else.
ANL fuses are quite unique. They will handle 150% to 160% of their rating for 500 seconds - over 8 minutes. They will handle much larger current for shorter periods of time, especially the short time a starter is engaged. But they will blow in a short circuit situation quickly.
ABYC does allow fusing of starting circuits to be 150% of the wire ampacity. I try and keep it to 100% or a bit less.
 
Feb 13, 2010
528
Yes you are right . It's been a long time since I have had a reason
to pay any attention to cable sizes. My ground cable I think is 6
rather that 6/0 and my positive cables are likely 2 I believe. They
seem amazingly big to turn over such a small engine. Anyway when I
go to the boat I will change the ground cables really does seem
awfully small.
Doug Pollard
Albin Vega Sea Legs 2225
KK4YGO


On 06/04/2014 10:25 PM, Brian Stannard
brianstannard@... [AlbinVega] wrote:
 
Sep 24, 2008
346
DougCable size has a lot to do with starting speed. I never wire starters with wire smaller than 1/0. My 8 hp Yanmar is wired with 2/0. Starts in a few seconds. I use the same size cables for all battery wiring and starter. Alt output (B+) and panel feed vary with alt output/length and panel loads/length.