Matt Rutherford's bulkhead issue

[vegatern]

I'm assuming as well that it is the mastbeam bulkhead because the bulkhead between cabin and cockpit does not attach to the deck. Perhaps the bolts that hold the bulkhead to the hull flange have worked and elongated their holes in the bulkhead or flange. If the bulkhead has moved re-aligning the holes may not be possible but by adding tabs of plywood to the bulkhead with glue/screws/bolts and bolting the tabs to the flange it may be possible to prevent further movement.

Perhaps in protected water it might be possible to force the bulkhead back in position. A wedge between the deck and bulkhead? If it seems to move a bit then maybe a rigging screw placed, in closed position, with one end bolted to the bulkhead and the other end,(first providing a large bearing surface) placed under the deck at the point where the cabin side and the deck join, might provide enough force to budge it. The possibility of breaking something important (the cabin side) seems very real. If a beam were available that would span the cabin the load could be placed on both side decks.

It seems odd. The impression is that the bulkheads are sliding, up on the starboard and down on the port, within the hull, but the two are not connected except by the mast beam. I don't recall any connection from the beam to the shrouds unless something was added in a re-build. Perhaps, if the boat is pressed hard for extended periods on starboard tack, there would be enough force transferred to the hull from the rig through the starboard shrouds that would do this and once he finds still water, or changes tack, the problem will resolve itself. I'm going to guess that the bulkhead bolts worked loose.
All this is speculation of course, and from a comfortable desk chair.

Craig Tern 1519

 

[vegatern]

Maybe . . . If most of the flange bolts were loose, but enough of those on the starboard side were tight enough to hold the starboard bulkhead to the hull, the pressure on the rig may have caused the hull to flex, twist, pulling the starboard side up. The starboard bulkhead going up with the hull, being attached to the mastbeam, caused the mastbeam to put a downward pressure on the port bulkhead, pushing it away from the deck. As the port end of the mast beam goes down the starboard end must go up tighter against the deck, causing the ridge. . . Craig

 

[tim_klynn]

It makes sense to me that if the port bulkhead is loose and dropped, and perhaps if the starboard bulkhead is pivoting on the vertical post at the starboard side of the door opening, the mast beam would lift against the deck.
The only factors that could deform the boat (other than all the forementioned bulkhead attachment/deterioration issues or rigging tension issues) that I could think of would be stresses caused by attachment of the sea anchor he uses or cabin top winches etc

My understanding is that if his voyage is to be a non-stop journey, he can't anchor.

As a side note, I get a general idea of what weather he is in for, by checking his position on the solotheamericas site, then I go to the volvooceanracegame.org site, look up his position, put a pushpin in it and then scroll through the weather forecasts. Supposedly, the game uses actual winds and forecasts.

From the looks of it, Matt's in 18+ knots now, but he's going to be in 30 knot+ winds in about 12 hours or so, followed by a day of 20+ knots, and then 24 hours of 30+ knots.
It looks like Matt will be spending a much more exciting New Years eve and day than I will.

The games wind forecasts seem to be close to, but lower than the actual wind Matt is seeing on the water.
The strongest winds seem to be blowing parallel to shore (NW) , so if he runs in the gales (or drifts on a sea anchor), he should be able to stay 150 miles offshore.
The strong winds seem die off Jan 4-5 to 12 knots and shift to SW once he rounds the horn. Hopefully he can make it around in that window of mellow winds.

I'm guessing he is using more accurate forecasts (NOAA or PredictWind). I wish him the best of luck. -Tim G
________________________________
From: Craig vegatern@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:52 PM
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Matt Rutherford's bulkhead issue



I'm assuming as well that it is the mastbeam bulkhead because the bulkhead between cabin and cockpit does not attach to the deck. Perhaps the bolts that hold the bulkhead to the hull flange have worked and elongated their holes in the bulkhead or flange. If the bulkhead has moved re-aligning the holes may not be possible but by adding tabs of plywood to the bulkhead with glue/screws/bolts and bolting the tabs to the flange it may be possible to prevent further movement.

Perhaps in protected water it might be possible to force the bulkhead back in position. A wedge between the deck and bulkhead? If it seems to move a bit then maybe a rigging screw placed, in closed position, with one end bolted to the bulkhead and the other end,(first providing a large bearing surface) placed under the deck at the point where the cabin side and the deck join, might provide enough force to budge it. The possibility of breaking something important (the cabin side) seems very real. If a beam were available that would span the cabin the load could be placed on both side decks.

It seems odd. The impression is that the bulkheads are sliding, up on the starboard and down on the port, within the hull, but the two are not connected except by the mast beam. I don't recall any connection from the beam to the shrouds unless something was added in a re-build. Perhaps, if the boat is pressed hard for extended periods on starboard tack, there would be enough force transferred to the hull from the rig through the starboard shrouds that would do this and once he finds still water, or changes tack, the problem will resolve itself. I'm going to guess that the bulkhead bolts worked loose.
All this is speculation of course, and from a comfortable desk chair.

Craig Tern 1519

 

[johnadenney]

Hi John, just thinking aloud through various options. If the bulkhead is trying to poke its way through the deck then some way of relieving the strain needs to be found. It all depends on the weather I guess but the repairs would be easier to make if the boat was safely tucked away somewhere - agreed - it may not be an option - just a thought.

 

[wordsort]

I just found this question/answer from Matt's blog. I saw it before but I couldn't remember what it said. QUESTION

Hi Matt.
Very impressed by your progress so far.
I'm an Albin Vega owner and I wondered what modifications if any you made to the boat for this voyage (strengthening rigging, bracing beam under mast, )?

All the best

John

ANSWER:
I added a new 3 inch thick bulkhead under the mast made of white oak. I kept kept part of the old bulkhead there but the original bulkhead is not a very hard wood. I also replaced the forepeak bulkhead with normal wood I pulled out of a dumpster (its a low budget trip) Theres new rigging, but the u-bolt chain plates are the same. The boat is more or less the same as all Vegas.
The Vega is a very basic boat but holds up well. I would of liked to have beefed up the rudder but I didn't have the time or money.

 

[Vega1447]

Hi John, sorry if I was a bit abrupt. MR's situation isn't good as far as we can see.
All the very best to him.

JohnJohn Kinsella
Mathematics and Statistics Dept
University of Limerick

Phone 0035361202148
Web jkcray.maths.ul.ie

 

[Vega1447]

Yeah - that was me asking the question.
MR is obviously a very capable seaman.

John

John Kinsella
Mathematics and Statistics Dept
University of Limerick

Phone 0035361202148
Web jkcray.maths.ul.ie

 

[wordsort]

It looks to me as if he may be heading for the Straits. Or is he just staying north of the storms until the last minute?

 

[av715]

Matt has an article in the January issue of Cruising World, pages 28-31, he did spend a couple of days in Croker Bay early in his trip resting. The bay is 900' deep so he used a parachute sea anchor, technically non-stop I suppose.

Andrew
V715

 

[bruceblumenstein]

I'm very curious to know what the door (if there is one) is doing? Is the hinge side still plumb? When the door is moved towards the closed position is the top of the door on the latch side above, or below the header? Does the door still seem to parallel the port side jamb? This could tell us a lot about what the bulkhead and support beam or the hull is doing. -Bruce

 

[pjacobs55]

It would be good to know more specific details of the problem, that way we could noodle a possible solution. I've been following Matt on his quest, and both he and the boat have taken an incredible beating.

I agree with Craig that maybe the bulkhead-to-hull-flange bolts have loosened and/or elongated the holes in the plywood, and maybe in the flange too. As long as the bulkhead is still sound, and can be persuaded back into a reasonable position, I'd re-drill (if I had a drill) holes half way between the existing pairs of bolts and move the bolts, one at a time, over to the new holes. Addition of fender washers on the wood side of the joint would help too. I don't know if this is even possible for him. It must be like working in a barrel going over Niagara Falls!

All that said, it's easy to 'fix' the problem from one's breakfast table. Matt seems a very resourceful and capable guy. I just hope the problem is repairable ... he's so close to the home run ... I wish him well!

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[bobnlesafloat]

Given that this is a 'single-handed non-stop' effort, I would surmise that going onto a quay and perhaps even anchoring up in some sheltered bay - assuming there is one - is not allowed within the rules? On that basis, Matt's only option would be heaving-to to effect the repairs; doing that and then easing the rigging in the 30knot NW winds which someone mentioned earlier would not be anywhere close to fun and would probably put a bigger strain/load on the rig & bulkhead than sailing on a broad reach as I understand he currently is. In fact I doubt that you could effectively ease the rigging whilst hove to and even if you can get the boat to sit head to wind, working at sea to do the job properly is going to take a whole day at least.

In an earlier post someone suggested that whilst the winds were currently NW 30 knots, soon (at about the time Matt's due to reach the cape?) they're forecast to go SW 15 knots; if these forecasts are reliable, I'd be tempted to try a stop-gap repair: Wedge something into the gap above the bulkhead to protect the deckhead & get something into the doorway to act as a compression post and try to round the cape - on what should again be a broad reach, then try to look for a sheltered spot on the east side - there must be a better chance of shelter that side? to undertake a more substantial/permanent repair. I realise it's a tough call and requires faith in the weather forecast, if Matt meets big head or even beam winds/seas, he could very easily loose the rig.

Another stop-gap idea I've had with regard to a compression post, would be to use the door itself: nail/screw some timbers onto either end to extend it and then secure it closed; Matt'd need to be astern of it at that point, so it would first need to be removed and then refitted to the saloon side of the door frame. It's certainly not what I'd call a good compression post, but it could be fabricated fairly quickly and might provide a short-term fix at least; I'm sure Matt won't want to miss out on what sounds to be a very favourable weather window at the cape whilst he spends a day or two fabricating something more secure/permanent.

If the mast load can be transmitted down to the keel, the rest can probaly wait; the chafe between bulkhead & deck will be substantially reduced once that point's no longer taking the full load of the mast and rig.

Good Luck,
Bob.________________________________
From: Peter peter@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 30 December 2011, 19:21
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Matt Rutherford's bulkhead issue
It would be good to know more specific details of the problem, that way we could noodle a possible solution. I've been following Matt on his quest, and both he and the boat have taken an incredible beating.

I agree with Craig that maybe the bulkhead-to-hull-flange bolts have loosened and/or elongated the holes in the plywood, and maybe in the flange too. As long as the bulkhead is still sound, and can be persuaded back into a reasonable position, I'd re-drill (if I had a drill) holes half way between the existing pairs of bolts and move the bolts, one at a time, over to the new holes. Addition of fender washers on the wood side of the joint would help too. I don't know if this is even possible for him. It must be like working in a barrel going over Niagara Falls!

All that said, it's easy to 'fix' the problem from one's breakfast table. Matt seems a very resourceful and capable guy. I just hope the problem is repairable ... he's so close to the home run ... I wish him well!

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[brockhaus77]

I am certainly no expert, and the bravery (and ability) of someone like Matt is simply awe-inspiring - but far beyond what I can imagine myself doing. Since I recently went through a retrofit of the mast beam myself (using Steve Birch's kit), just 2 cents:
1) My last post is at message # 17983; earlier ones should be easy to find from there (also photos in the "Photos" section under VegaLyra
2) I found that the deck is rather stiff once deformed (in my case by years of sagging mast support, in Matt's case perhaps by strong wind forces from one side only for days on end); so that I actually ended up "seeing the daylight" on BOTH sides of the bulkhead after fitting the support. This has settled some over time, and under more benign sailing conditions as in the Chesapeake Bay didn't cause a problem. However, it might feel uncomfortable not having the deck supported along its width when encountering the Horn.

 

[groundhogyh]

Maybe he should turn his boat in exactly the opposite direction for a few days, and put the exact opposite forces on the rig? This may give him or us more info on what is actually moving, as some things may shift back in the other direction. Also give him more time and easier winds to figure out what is happening and fix it.
groundhog

 

[enduranceyachtdeliveries]

With winds of WNW to 40kts and 20-25 seas, I don't think sailing the reciprical course wld do much except break stuff!!
Seriously though I want to thank everyone for the suggestions for Matt. He seems to have things secured and will look at it again as he gets into calmer conditions
further north. It seems that structurally, there is no imminent problem.
Thank s all again,
Simon________________________________
From: groundhog groundhogyh@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2012 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Matt Rutherford's bulkhead issue



Maybe he should turn his boat in exactly the opposite direction for a few days, and put the exact opposite forces on the rig? This may give him or us more info on what is actually moving, as some things may shift back in the other direction. Also give him more time and easier winds to figure out what is happening and fix it.
groundhog

 

[rolyatad]

I just checked Matt's position, and it looks like he's going for it. . . .
High drama.

 

[Vega1447]

On 02/01/2012 20:32, J. Craig Glover wrote:

 

[Vega1447]

Looks like Matt is within 50M of the Cape.

Solo Around the Americas Under Sail | An audacious attempt at sailing the Northwest Passage and circumnavigating entirety of both continents, to benefit Chesapeake Region Accessible Boating

I'm sorry that I won't be there to shake his hand when he ties up in his home port.

John V1447 Breakaway

John Kinsella
Mathematics and Statistics Dept
University of Limerick

Phone 0035361202148
Web jkcray.maths.ul.ie

 

[albinvega1493]

I have read all the posts regarding Matt's bulkhead issues and a number of observations might be in order. There are three other possible options that have not been mentioned yet.

1)In the book "Log of the Mahina" I remember reading about a mast compression issue that involved the mast pressing down on the door post/vertical supports. There is a 3/8 bolt at the bottom of that support that ties into the structure at the bottom of the bulkhead. In the book, the 3/8 bolt either sheared off or came disconnected, and the vertical supports began pushing down onto the hull area on either side of the keel, threatening to push through the hull. This could be the cause of the bulkhead gaps. Multiple failures of both mast collapse and hull breach at the same time could be the result if this is not dealt with. Many Vega owners have wrongly assumed that the mast support issue is at the top of the bulkhead. That is not necessarily the case.

2) In the Albin Vega I restored, the chainplates (all 3 on each side) were backed up by a single long aluminum channel. Aluminum being soft and pliable, it will not stand up to continuous stresses over time. Eventually the chainplates will deform the aluminum channel, and the chainplate will then try to pull itself up through the hull/deck joint, the end result, if not attended to, will be catastrophic mast failure. I replaced my support channels with stainless channels of a heavier grade metal. Doing that type of a repair at sea would be difficult.

3) In the Albin Vega I restored, the deck itself under the mast step had suffered water intrusion into the core, and the deck/mast support structure had softened, allowing the mast step to collapse into the deck. Again, if this is the problem that Matt is having, it involves major deck/deck core repair,

So 1) check the bolts at the bottom of the door frame. 2) Check the chainplate backing plate channel, and 3) Check the deck beneath the mast step.

If Matt is having any of these issues, it is serious indeed, and continuing the trip in order to break a non-stop record is at the expense of the risk of his life. It would seem wise, at the very least, that he find a quiet bay where he can throw out his sea anchor to asses and attempt the necessary repairs.

I know that the Albin Vega is mentioned in John Vigor's book as being a seaworthy boat. I am sure however, that the designer of the boat never intended her to be sailed non-stop around the America's. In comparison to many typical ocean cruisers, the Vega is a lightly built boat. To be considered for long passages of open ocean cruising, she needs to be upgraded in some areas. Making those upgrades before one takes off into the great blue yonder would be wise. I realize in Matts case, that his adventure was budget based, and he is working with what he had available to him. He is in my prayers, I hope he is able to complete the trip as planned. But I also hope he doesn't push the boat beyond its limits at the expense of personal safety.

Best of luck Matt. Our prayers are with you.

Larry
Former Vega Owner