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Chuck R
Not sure if this is even available,,,,,?
Reason being, Rake is just one of the adjustments that tunes our 222's the centerboard being another. When tuning your boat, you adjust the mast rake to give the desired helm on the tiller. We have three positions that we can pin the forestay, I would start with the middle position on your bow chain plate. And this would be after you make your shrouds adjustments for balance port to starboard.
On "GETAWAY" with the forestay pinned in the most forward position, we have way to much weather helm ( boat wants to turn to the wind when you let go of the tiller ) and she is very hard to steer. We ended up using the aft position for the best mast rake, as this gives us just a slight weather helm which I like best. The lee helm I think is a problem ( boat turns away from the wind when tiller is let go ) simply because in a wind gust you / I want the boat to round up into the wind. Not steer away and continue to fill the sails.
With Just a slight weather helm the 222 heels over to a point, usually after you have the teak toe rail in the water. At this point there is less rudder in the water and she starts to round up and no matter what you do with the tiller you cannot keep her from heading up and spilling her wind.
Lift the centerboard to slightly to reduce weather helm, lower to add weather helm. It is all about balancing your boat.
When sailing with too much weather helm,, that pull on the tiller is resistance on your glide in the water. A loss of efficiency. Since I have not had much experience with wheeled steering sailboats I wonder if this feel of helm is there. My guess is yes and there is probably a dampening adjustment too. But if not I'd say it's a plus for tiller steering.. Hummmm ,, another subject to ponder.
Reason being, Rake is just one of the adjustments that tunes our 222's the centerboard being another. When tuning your boat, you adjust the mast rake to give the desired helm on the tiller. We have three positions that we can pin the forestay, I would start with the middle position on your bow chain plate. And this would be after you make your shrouds adjustments for balance port to starboard.
On "GETAWAY" with the forestay pinned in the most forward position, we have way to much weather helm ( boat wants to turn to the wind when you let go of the tiller ) and she is very hard to steer. We ended up using the aft position for the best mast rake, as this gives us just a slight weather helm which I like best. The lee helm I think is a problem ( boat turns away from the wind when tiller is let go ) simply because in a wind gust you / I want the boat to round up into the wind. Not steer away and continue to fill the sails.
With Just a slight weather helm the 222 heels over to a point, usually after you have the teak toe rail in the water. At this point there is less rudder in the water and she starts to round up and no matter what you do with the tiller you cannot keep her from heading up and spilling her wind.
Lift the centerboard to slightly to reduce weather helm, lower to add weather helm. It is all about balancing your boat.
When sailing with too much weather helm,, that pull on the tiller is resistance on your glide in the water. A loss of efficiency. Since I have not had much experience with wheeled steering sailboats I wonder if this feel of helm is there. My guess is yes and there is probably a dampening adjustment too. But if not I'd say it's a plus for tiller steering.. Hummmm ,, another subject to ponder.
J
Joe
Mast rake for a 222
I just checked my 222 manual and it doesn't go into any specific numbers on mast rake or even shroud tension. There is a paragraph entitled:
For The Racer
The rake of the mast can be changed by adjusting the forestay and then re-adjusting the sidestays. In general, a boat will perform better while sailing to windward, with some aft rake, and better downwind with the mast plumb or slightly raked forward. Races are usually won to weather, so favor more aft rake, if anything.
To tell you the truth KC, I've never really paid much attention to the rake of my mast and I have a Johnson Handy-Lock on my backstay which I only loosen when I need to disconnect my forestay and lower my mast. I use a Loos Gauge to check my shroud tension once in a while, but other than that, I never have to change the adjustment on my turnbuckles. The Handy-Lock alone, allows me to put enough slack in the forestay which has a CDI Roller Furler on it now. I would say that the best thing for you to do is take it out for a sail in 10 to 15 Knot winds and get a feel for the tiller. If it's pulling hard, it can be caused by one of two things; the rudder blade has creped up and needs to be all the way in the down position, or the mast is raked to far aft. Let go of the tiller. The boat should come up into the wind and this is what you want. If it falls off, then the mast is too far forward and needs to be raked back a little. My boat Trinnka has very little weather helm and she will round up when I let go of the tiller. Just remember that these keel centerboard sloops won't always stay into the wind like the full keel boats, and will go around in circles. It's just the nature of the beast.
Joe
I just checked my 222 manual and it doesn't go into any specific numbers on mast rake or even shroud tension. There is a paragraph entitled:
For The Racer
The rake of the mast can be changed by adjusting the forestay and then re-adjusting the sidestays. In general, a boat will perform better while sailing to windward, with some aft rake, and better downwind with the mast plumb or slightly raked forward. Races are usually won to weather, so favor more aft rake, if anything.
To tell you the truth KC, I've never really paid much attention to the rake of my mast and I have a Johnson Handy-Lock on my backstay which I only loosen when I need to disconnect my forestay and lower my mast. I use a Loos Gauge to check my shroud tension once in a while, but other than that, I never have to change the adjustment on my turnbuckles. The Handy-Lock alone, allows me to put enough slack in the forestay which has a CDI Roller Furler on it now. I would say that the best thing for you to do is take it out for a sail in 10 to 15 Knot winds and get a feel for the tiller. If it's pulling hard, it can be caused by one of two things; the rudder blade has creped up and needs to be all the way in the down position, or the mast is raked to far aft. Let go of the tiller. The boat should come up into the wind and this is what you want. If it falls off, then the mast is too far forward and needs to be raked back a little. My boat Trinnka has very little weather helm and she will round up when I let go of the tiller. Just remember that these keel centerboard sloops won't always stay into the wind like the full keel boats, and will go around in circles. It's just the nature of the beast.
Joe
K
Kacey
Thanks...
Chuck and Joe, Thank you for your assistance. I will share this info with the folks trying to help me fine tune (learn to fine tune) my O'Day.
Thanks,
Kacey
Chuck and Joe, Thank you for your assistance. I will share this info with the folks trying to help me fine tune (learn to fine tune) my O'Day.
Thanks,
Kacey
J
Jon
O'Day 222 Mast Rake
I recently measured my 222 during process of buying a new Genoa (jib sail) from Neil Pryde. After submitting my measurements, the loft reminded me of the 1-degree nominal mast rake that would be factored in to the sail's design. Bottom line -- with my 'as-built' numbers and the loft's knowledge, a most beautiful sail was built.
I recently measured my 222 during process of buying a new Genoa (jib sail) from Neil Pryde. After submitting my measurements, the loft reminded me of the 1-degree nominal mast rake that would be factored in to the sail's design. Bottom line -- with my 'as-built' numbers and the loft's knowledge, a most beautiful sail was built.
C
Chuck R
Weather helm ??
Ahoy Jon,
When I first saw that you replied, I thought you were gonna speak of the wheel steering and helm. What say you about feeling weather helm with steering over a tiller?
Ahoy Jon,
When I first saw that you replied, I thought you were gonna speak of the wheel steering and helm. What say you about feeling weather helm with steering over a tiller?
J
Jon
Weather Helm - Wheel vs. Tiller
Chuck, now that you've asked...
As you know, the thing that turns the rudder (tiller or wheel) is not a player in the weather helm equation. With either wheel or tiller you'll feel weather helm when its there. Since the tiller is the only thing between the helmsperson and rudder, feedback of rudder behavior and pressure is more direct than through the linkage and cables of a wheel steering system. So it may be said that the tiller can provide more 'sensitivity' to weather helm (and general balance of the boat and/o sails), possibly letting the one at the helm more readily appreciate the effects of changes of sail trim.
Chuck, now that you've asked...
As you know, the thing that turns the rudder (tiller or wheel) is not a player in the weather helm equation. With either wheel or tiller you'll feel weather helm when its there. Since the tiller is the only thing between the helmsperson and rudder, feedback of rudder behavior and pressure is more direct than through the linkage and cables of a wheel steering system. So it may be said that the tiller can provide more 'sensitivity' to weather helm (and general balance of the boat and/o sails), possibly letting the one at the helm more readily appreciate the effects of changes of sail trim.
J
Joe
Mast rake for a 222
I checked the mast rake on my 222 last Tuesday at the dock with a plumb bob and came up with a mast rake aft of approximately 5". I let another guy sight it and he came up with the same number. I think that the amount of weight in the stern plays into the rake, too. Cat boats as a general rule, have a lot of weather helm which can be very overbearing at times, but these 222s can be steered very easy with your fingers on the tiller. I think that you're probably going get a better feel of weather helm from a tiller than a steering wheel. If you're mast is raked too far aft KC, you may have to adjust your forestay. Here's a site that will show you how it's done. Before adjusting the forestay though, you need to make sure that there is a toggle on both ends of your forestay, especially the top. A regular "T" Ball fitting in a mast slot will break in time due to movement of the forestay with the furler attached. I had to mount a Dwyer Tang on my mast for my forestay. Toggles and toggle straps are recommended in the CDI Manual.
Joe
I checked the mast rake on my 222 last Tuesday at the dock with a plumb bob and came up with a mast rake aft of approximately 5". I let another guy sight it and he came up with the same number. I think that the amount of weight in the stern plays into the rake, too. Cat boats as a general rule, have a lot of weather helm which can be very overbearing at times, but these 222s can be steered very easy with your fingers on the tiller. I think that you're probably going get a better feel of weather helm from a tiller than a steering wheel. If you're mast is raked too far aft KC, you may have to adjust your forestay. Here's a site that will show you how it's done. Before adjusting the forestay though, you need to make sure that there is a toggle on both ends of your forestay, especially the top. A regular "T" Ball fitting in a mast slot will break in time due to movement of the forestay with the furler attached. I had to mount a Dwyer Tang on my mast for my forestay. Toggles and toggle straps are recommended in the CDI Manual.
Joe
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