Mast mounting a whisker pole - sticker shock

[tfox2069]

I've been eyeing adding an asymmetrical spinnaker for the last two seasons to my 2009 Hunter 36. But where my sail plan generally falls short is almost dead downwind, so I've come to the conclusion that a potentially better option would be to rig a whisker pole to wing out my 135% genoa. I don't race, so this is strictly for cruising. Also, a lot of my sailing is single hand, so I'm interested in a solution I can rig and take down myself, and a symmetrical spinnaker is more than I want to deal with (though an asym is a possibility, but doesn't solve my DDW problem).

I got a quote from a rigger who does excellent work, to have a Forespar 12-22 whisker pole track mounted to the mast, and I was absolutely stunned - over $5,000 for parts and labor. The labor was reasonable, but what stunned me is the $4,200 in parts! The complete pole from Defender is around $1,200 plus shipping. Can the rest of that hardware be that expensive?!?!?

I'm seriously considering just putting a fixed ring mount on the mast now and putting stanchion mounts for the pole when I'm not using it. I mean, I get how much more convenient a mast mounted whisker pole would be, but is it worth another $3,800?!?!?! I can drill and tap the mast for the ring mount, and the stanchion mounts are a no brainer. Am I missing something??

 

[dlochner]

The local rigger will probably not match Defender's price, charging closer to list price. Labor costs are probably north of $100 per hour per person. The list price for the pole is $2166, plus shipping. Shipping will be expensive because of its size. Add a topping lift to the pole and related hardware adds to the price and adds to the ease of use. It all adds up quickly.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I had the same sticker shock looking for a pole. I ended up getting the Forespar 7-15’ pole, mast ring, and stanchion chocks. At the time (2019) with shipping it totaled $552. It’s definitely undersized for the boat in terms of overall strength, but is adequate length for my 14.9’ J. I only use it in true wind speed up to about 12 and pretty flat water, so it’s strong enough for me. I use the spinnaker halyard as a topping lift.

Definitely not the right solution for everyone, but at 10% the cost of what you were quoted I’m happy with it.

 

[PaulK]

Can't you let a whisker pole be held up by the leech of the jib, since it's essentially attached to the clew of the jib anyway? So, no need for a topping lift. Then, since you know how long the leech is and where it is going to be when you're running dead downwind, you only need a simple ring fitting at the right height on the mast, not an adjustable one. Sounds like your KISS approach should work. It's not like a whisker pole for your boat is going to have a 6" diameter and weigh 80 pounds, either.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Can't you let a whisker pole be held up by the leech of the jib, since it's essentially attached to the clew of the jib anyway?

In my case I could, but the shape isn’t great, especially in really light air. The leech tends to close off too much when it’s holding the weight of the pole, so the TL rounds it out better.

 

[tfox2069]

I had the same sticker shock looking for a pole. I ended up getting the Forespar 7-15’ pole, mast ring, and stanchion chocks. At the time (2019) with shipping it totaled $552. It’s definitely undersized for the boat in terms of overall strength, but is adequate length for my 14.9’ J. I only use it in true wind speed up to about 12 and pretty flat water, so it’s strong enough for me. I use the spinnaker halyard as a topping lift.

Definitely not the right solution for everyone, but at 10% the cost of what you were quoted I’m happy with it.

This is exactly what I'm price comparing against. Encouraging to hear that it works for your purposes. Less convenient, but for occasional use I think this may be the direction I go.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Topping lift is always first thing attached ... makes sure the expensive pole stays on the boat if I lose my grip! Yes, the rigger has to make a living, too, so pricing is always going to seem high when comparing it to your own DIY costs.

 

[BarryL]

Hi,

A mast mounted track is best. However a ring on the mast and some chocks on the stanchions is pretty c,one for a lot less money. You do need a topping lift. If you have a spinnaker halyard you can use that as a pole lift but a real one is better.

i put that setup on my c&c 110 and it was VERY effective.

another option for faster downwind sailing would be a code 0 or asym spinnaker on a top down furler. You can’t sail ddw but can sail pretty low and pretty fast too.

Barry

 

[CarlN]

Look at the Selden telescoping poles. Quality is as good or better than Forespar. Under $1000. Use a ring and install it yourself just by drilling and tapping for the bolts. Aluminum is so easy. No need for a track since you can calculate just the right heigh for your fully unfurled Genoa. Don't worry if it's a little short. Sail shape will be fine. As said, use the spinnaker halyard as a topping lift - or just attach a small block on the mast. There's very little force on the topping lift so it doesn't have to be very strong. Selden Telescopic Adjustable Whisker Poles | Fisheries Supply

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Look at the Selden telescoping poles. Quality is as good or better than Forespar. Under $1000. Use a ring. No need for a track since you can calculate just the right heigh for your fully unfurled Genoa. Don't worry if it's a little short. Sail shape will be fine. As said, use the spinnaker halyard as a topping lift - or just attach a small block on the mast. There's very little force on the topping lift so it doesn't have to be very strong. Selden Telescopic Adjustable Whisker Poles | Fisheries Supply

I had this pole on my Starwind and I give it a . It can actually be used as a sym. spinnaker pole at the design setting for spinnaker pole. It is a heavy pole, though, because of the section and the stiffness for sym spinnaker use. I bought the smallest size and was happy that I didn't buy a step larger because of the weight.

 

[sail sfbay]

.........I'm seriously considering just putting a fixed ring mount on the mast now and putting stanchion mounts for the pole when I'm not using it............

Good "value for money" plan. You can always install a mast track a later date, if you determine you need it.

 

[Hello Below]

I ended up getting the Forespar 7-15’ pole, mast ring, and stanchion chocks.

Love the ease of use and subsequently deploy it often.

 

[Tally Ho]

My boat has an A-spin and a very large spinnaker pole.

Can I use the spinnaker pole like a whisker pole? I have a topping lift to support it, but it certainly heavier than a whisker pole.

I have used the A-spin, but have never used the pole.

Greg

 

[Davidasailor26]

My boat has an A-spin and a very large spinnaker pole.

Can I use the spinnaker pole like a whisker pole? I have a topping lift to support it, but it certainly heavier than a whisker pole.

I have used the A-spin, but have never used the pole.

Greg

Yes, that should be fine. As long as you use the TL to help carry the weight it should be fine. When racing there are length restrictions on a whisker pole, often 100% of J, but when cruising that’s not an issue.

Trying to go the other way does not work - spinnaker poles need to handle significant compression loads, especially when reaching, which a typical whisker pole isn’t designed for.

 

[Joe]

When racing there are length restrictions on a whisker pole, often 100% of J, but when cruising that’s not an issue.

I was not aware that the J was factored into race restrictions for whisker poles the way they are with spinnaker poles.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I was not aware that the J was factored into race restrictions for whisker poles the way they are with spinnaker poles.

Indeed. A couple of examples -

PHRF of Chesapeake Bay - “The maximum length of a spinnaker pole (whisker pole) that may be used without penalty shall be equal to J. If the spinnaker pole (whisker pole) is adjustable, a red color shall be visible if the pole is extended beyond its rated length.”

Wayzata Yacht Club - “Allowable whisker pole length equals "J" for boats whose largest jib LP is 1.25 times J or less. Allowable whisker pole length for boats with a jib LP greater than 1.25 times J is .8 times LP. Longer poles are penalized. Shorter poles (or no pole) do not receive a credit. It is permitted that telescoping poles capable of greater length be marked (nail polish?) at the point of maximum allowable extension.”

There is some variation though. For example Eastern Connecticut Sailing Association says “Whisker Poles must be declared but there is no whisker pole length (WPL) limit.”

 

[sailme88]

AS a rule of thumb... installers charge the same amount for labor that the parts costs....not an absolute, but a common practice. Before you give up, check ATN tacker on YouTube...

 

[LeeandRick]

You can save a little more by building your on storage mounts. I had some stall mat ( hard recycled rubber) left over from another project. Cut u shaped slots in 4 pieces, glued and screwed 2 of these together, to make 1.5" thickness and bolted them to 2" aluminum angle. Made 2 of these. Mounted to the deck with extreme double sided tape along the stanchions. Still going strong after 3 years and I live in 115 degree heat.

I also use my Forespar 10-18 LC pole in the collapsed position for my symmetrical spinnaker. If you do this, make sure the internal lines are not twisted so the internal pole section can rest against the external poles end fitting without binding.

 

[tfox2069]

Ordered the Forespar Line Control whisker pole, mast ring mount, and stanchion chocks. I already have a spinnaker halyard (installed by the same rigger - I have used their services several times). This project will just need to be a DIY.

One final question - what's the best way to determine the right height for the ring (e.g. so the pole is parallel to the water when the genoa is all the way out). Can I just unfurl the genoa and pull the clew back to the mast and mark it there, or wait for a windless day and pole out the genoa at the dock and mark where the whisker pole touches the mast when level with the water?

 

[Davidasailor26]

One final question - what's the best way to determine the right height for the ring (e.g. so the pole is parallel to the water when the genoa is all the way out). Can I just unfurl the genoa and pull the clew back to the mast and mark it there, or wait for a windless day and pole out the genoa at the dock and mark where the whisker pole touches the mast when level with the water?

I experimented with a boat hook as a pole to judge the right height. The sail tends to hang a little low in very calm air, so you’ll get a better idea of the right height if you can do a test under sail with at least a few knots of apparent wind.