Mast Damage, how serious?

[Ross]

Re: Damaged mast

I am sure that closing the split and straightening the sail track will be serious work and it may not be possible to get a satisfactory result. I do believe that asking a shop that works with aluminum fabrication and repair will be worth the time. You can't know what a shop can do until you ask.

 

[jtm]

clanging masts???

You mentioned you were in water - and noticed this later.
I wonder if in a storm you were "langing masts" with the sailboats next to you??? I always check to see how my boat is aligned vis a vis the boat next to me- especially if a good storm is expected. It could be that in the "moment" of each boat, somehow you ended up butting your masts???? Look at the condition of your neighbor's mast on each side. sometimes its good to just have neighbor "slipped" in opposite direction or have masts about 3 ft out of parallel to the next boat..

 

[jtm]

emmm... that was "clanging" masts, not langing- pardon my typo.

 

[Rick Webb]

These Suggestions are all Good

I would however rely on whatever Julian at US Spars tells you.

800.928.0786

 

[Ross]

Hello, I have a Hunter 23.5 with a rip in the mast at the spreaders. It is a vertical rip in the metal parallel to the sail groove. I don't know how it happened but just noticed it while I was getting it ready for the sailing season.

I am going to attach pictures.

Has anyone seen anything like this? Can it be repaired? Should I get a new mast? Can anyone direct me to an expert in this sort of thing?

Thank you for your time. Lynnie

very important question: Was the mast stored as a stepped mast or was it unstepped and stored on some manner of a rack?

 

[Grizz]

Seriously, the mast is damaged...

...and Ross asked a pertinant question: "How was it stored?" This answer may (emphasis on may) help prevent another incident after this mast is repaired or replaced.

It cetainly appears the can in the picture Ross included shows evidence of well-aged patina (rust), was stored upright outdoors, contained some sort of liquid and was subjected to no excessive loads from external forces. The origianal 'split seam event' may have been a nasty botulism-induced bean explosion w/ Ross setting the can outside "for good riddance!".

Lots of synapses firing on this one. The outcome will be interesting, perhaps leading to a new Prime Time Program: CSI: Boat Yard

 

[John]

Insurance

DEFINITELY CONTACT YOUR INSURANCE if you have anything more than just liability. My mast (keel stepped with an in-mast furling main) had to be replaced last year. They sent out an adjuster, had everything carefully inspected, etc. etc. There was a little question as to how the damage happened, who was at fault, etc. but they ended up paying the full amount (close to $20,000). Don't hesitate. Call your insurance if you have anything more than liability before you do anything else.

by the way, as far as US Spars: I was happy with the work they did on building a new mast, and they were very friendly and helpful, but don't count on Julian to return calls or follow things up; if they do the work, you have to follow up regularly yourself.

 

[John]

Note: If you have any work done on the mast before having the insurance look at it, and then there is a later problem with the mast, this may void out any coverage you have.

 

[tomgrigsby]

The stbd spreader mount looks compressed. The mast tore at a construction bend seam. No backstay means the spreader acts as the backstay. I'd hate to see the mast come down on a downwind run. I'd say replace the mast due to the compression damage at the spreader mount. JMHO

 

[roger10055]

the shape of the mast is it's strength. yours has been warped and compromised. also, how far in each direction has the metal been fractured and not apparent from the outside. welding cures the rip, but the mast could fail again in one of those midwest blow-ups and someone gets hurt. i'll bet there's a mast out there. good hunting

 

[Greg1103]

mast mayhem

Last year I found a 3/4" dent to my mast just above the gooseneck on my 2006 Hunter 45CC. Hunter said their 5 yr warranty is for hull only. Glenn Henderson, who designed the boat, and Selden said they had never seen the problem. (No history of accidental jibe) Selden said replace the lower mast as the boom might break off and hole my boat...no, they would not send the piece to my mast guy because they would not warranty the repair/replacement unless they did the work....so I had to send my entire mast to Selden....my insurance and I split the $8000 bill. One month later someone else reported the same problem in his 2003 Hunter 39. So start with the mast manufacturer. In the meantime, let's keep track of these rare / weird / unexplained mast occurrences which may be a reflection of a design defect (is it only happening in masts without backstays? or thin in-furling masts?), stress fatigue, or a materials issue?

 

[Lynnie]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I appreciate it more than you know.

I know I have not caught the spreaders on anything while I was in the boat, and my son and I did not hold it by the spreaders when we took it down last fall. When I look at it though I see that there is deformity around the area of the spreader fitting. (or whatever that is called). At the slip that I am in during the sailing season there is another boat on the starboard side, however it is a bigger boat than mine and the spreaders do not match up. But, anything could happen during a storm I guess.

The mast was stored on the boat per the front and back supports. I put it in the barn for the majority of the winter but it sat out for a month or so before I got it backed in there. It got rained on and snowed on and there was quite a bit of snow on it the day I put it in the barn. There was not a tarp on it. Nothing unusual happened when I put it in the barn.

I thought about my insurance but I think it is only liability. I’m going to check with them tomorrow.

I was going to call US Spar before going to work today but it didn't work out. Plan to call them tomorrow. I'm not sure who the mast manufacturer is, but will delve into that tomorrow or the next day.

I don't think there are any mast manufactures or aircraft manufacturers here in this part of Indiana. Maybe in Chicago perhaps? or St Louis? Or maybe there is something in Indianapolis? I’ll have to check.

This mast has always been a bear to tune. Per the instructions the spreaders are to be tuned to pull the mast back while the forestay pulls the mast forward, so that there is a bend in the mast. That can be tough to do and probably needs more adjustment than I have kept up with, however I never had anything happen while I was sailing.

I love sailing this boat but my next boat is gonna have a back stay again, and none of this tuning to bend the mast stuff.

I’d love to get a used mast just like this one so I don’t have to redo the rigging. I just don’t know where to look yet.

Thanks again! Lynnie

 

[jibes138]

Another Possibility

It is not unusual for materials to have defects. If there was a defect in the material it would make the mast weak in the area that it failed. Since the shrouds act as a backstay there is a bending moment on the spreaders in the direction of failure. Material defects can take the form of inclusions, folds, laps, seams, etc. An example: an ingot of aluminum has an impurity. The material gets rolled out making the impurity get elongated an stretch out. As this process continues over and over the defect can run over a very long length. I have seen solid bar stock have defects almost the entire length of a 12 foot bar. Another option is if the extrusion wasn't done correctly the material may be extra thin in that section. It really needs a metallurgist to examine the area, but to do it right will require sectioning and cutting out the damaged area. You could see for instance if it failed immediately as a result of overstressing or did it fatigue over a long period of time with a crack propagating until the remaining material had insufficient strength to support the loading.

 

[Rick Webb]

Mast Manufacturer

The mast is a Zspar which is now USspar.

Wasn't there somone not too long ago whose ballast tank on his 23.5 ruptured beyond repair? Wonder where his mast is.

 

[Rama]

At first it looks like freeze damage and I've seen enough of that, but looking at the base area at the starboard spreader it looks more like alot of down pull did the damage, not that it matters at this point.

Exactly !!

 

[Ross]

I believe that we can conclude that some preventable damage has occured to the mast.
The reasons for the damage are not yet determined but are avoidable with a bit of care.
If the damage was the result of accumulating water inside the mast and freezing, prevention is simple, support the mast at several points with one end higher than the other and cover the high end to prevent the entry of rain water or snow melt water.

If the damage was the result of careless handling during the unstepping effort, then better planning and greater care will be adequate.

If the damage occured during storage then improved security is the answer.

If the damage was the result of a material defect, there is no remedy unless the maker offers a lifetime material and workmanship warrenty.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Lynnie,

A few thoughts as you move forward with this:

I don't think there are any mast manufactures or aircraft manufacturers here in this part of Indiana. Maybe in Chicago perhaps? or St Louis? Or maybe there is something in Indianapolis? I’ll have to check.

If repair is to be explored, I don't think just any source of aluminum repair, such as in the aircraft industry, is advisable. It would be prudent to seek out a source that's familiar with the loads and stresses on a sailboat mast, particularly at the spreaders, that's a high load area.

Your comments about difficulty in tuning the rig, discomfort over designed bend in the mast and wanting a backstay on the next boat are well taken. Hunter has tried to be an innovator with different types of rigs. Their diamond rig comes to mind. It has turnbuckles aloft which makes it a real PITA to tune and swept back spreaders like yours that the main chafes when running. Just because it's different and newer doesn't make it better. The old conventional rig has been proven reliable and virtually unchanged for maybe 50+ years.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I totally agree with your concerns.

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

I'll bet these guys could help you find a used mast- they sell trailer sailors new and used (on north side of Indy) and know thousands of boat owners http://sailboatsindiana.com

 

[islandjim]

I concur with Ross. The same thing happened to a old mast I had behind the work garage. It filled with water and expanded leaving a similar looking break in the aluminum.

 

[Ross]

I have seen basketball goal posts and swingset posts that were split this way along with more than a few water pipes. I have had five gallon buckets ruined just like the picture of the tomato can I posted yesterday. My brother had a John Deere tractor engine freeze and break the water jacket and he repaired that by brazing it with an oxy-acetylene torch. Ran that tractor for several years.