1982 c25 the mast has developed a couple of hairline cracks 1 at the base and 1 above the spreaders, anybody had luck with tig welding these masts
mast cracking
- Thread starter Kristoffer76
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As a welder I would say buying a new mast is your best option. From a welders perspective that material is pretty thin so its not an easy weld. Next, since it is anodized you will destroy the anodize in the area of the weld as far as the heat extends. Next, I would be worried that the welds would be more brittle than the original extrusion when the mast flexes.
You got a 30 year service life from the original mast, so I guess that's not too shabby.
You got a 30 year service life from the original mast, so I guess that's not too shabby.
Will add some more well defined pictures tomorrow when u get back to the boat.
Catalina direct tech support is very intrested in seeing these cracks as they are along the seem and haven't sold any replacement masts in several years. And the ones they did sell were for complete failures not this type of hairline cracks
Thats not so much a crack as the seam separating, whole diff issue. Far out of warranty from original spar maker. I'd like to see if the issue is the same up above the spreaders where you say the other one is, so another pic of that area if you can get it.
Let me recommend this as a possible fix which is far less expensive than welding and without the heat distortion and damage, also DIY. You could get some sheet aluminum, same gauge as the extrusion or just slightly thicker. Make a plate patch that covers the area of the 'crack' and use several aluminum rivet to secure in place. As long as they don't interfere with anything they should work fine and you can be more confident sailing it while you locate another extrusion.
Let me recommend this as a possible fix which is far less expensive than welding and without the heat distortion and damage, also DIY. You could get some sheet aluminum, same gauge as the extrusion or just slightly thicker. Make a plate patch that covers the area of the 'crack' and use several aluminum rivet to secure in place. As long as they don't interfere with anything they should work fine and you can be more confident sailing it while you locate another extrusion.
They can be TIG welded, and if a person is good and knows his equipment well, it could be MIG welded... but afterwards it would need to be anealed to releave the stress from the welding.
I agree that wrapping it is a good tempoary fix, but not so good as a long term repair for thin aluminum. The flexing of the mast will soon get to the rivits and losen them in their holes, and you will be back to where you are now, only with more welding to do.
Welding it properly and anealing by someone who really knows metal and the how to remove the static stress from it, will most likely give you a permanent repair that will last until something more severe happens to cause other damage.
I'm glad Centerline mentioned annealing, that's what I was getting at when I said that the welds would be more brittle than the surrounding substrate.
For those that don't know, a little education... annealing is the process of heating metal (to low temp) and allowing to cool that re-aligns the crystalline structure at a molecular level, making the aluminum more malleable. This is done to plate aluminum before bending and shaping. It makes it 'softer' but not 'weaker'. A very good demonstration of this was done by Jesse James in the documentary Motorcycle Mania where he anneals plate aluminum before shaping it to create a gas tank.
Going back to my points about doing a weld repair on the mast, like I said the heat from the weld alone will destroy the anodize, the annealing will further damage the anodize so that area or the entire mast will have to be painted (more work, more money). I think that's further reason to just buy a new mast.
I'd have to disagree about using the MIG process for a mast repair. MIG with aluminum requires the use of a Spool Gun, a set up that is more aimed at high volume manufacturing (quickly welding trailer frames for example). This is typically done at high Amps on much thicker aluminum than this mast extrusion and the beads will be big and ugly. TIG, with skilled hand/eye and amp control is the way to go.
For the patch process (if elected), I agree that stress on the rivets could cause them to loosen over time... however, this is why you use many rivets, very close together. Install the correct size rivet at close interval with a pneumatic rivet gun. On a patch that is say three inches wide and rivets around the whole way is equalizing the stress and flex across all the fasteners. If done correctly it could be technically stronger than a weld repair. If flexing caused and rivets to loosen over time they could be drilled and reinstalled without even going up in size, so you really wouldn't need to start over.
My recommendation is still to find a new (or used but in good condition) mast. If I was doing this repair because the need is to get back on the water right away I would be very confident that the patch would not only work well and cost less, but I would have all the confidence that it would hold up and prevent any further damage from the separating seam issue.
One last note, the patch will need to be annealed to. Since it is a separate piece it will be done off the mast so heating will not damage the mast. Bend the patch to match the curve of the mast, then over bend it just a little more. Prime and paint it silver to blend in well with the mast anodize color. Use aluminum rivets, NOT Stainless!! Pneumatic rivet guns are not expensive, mine came from Harbor Freight and works flawlessly, $25.
For those that don't know, a little education... annealing is the process of heating metal (to low temp) and allowing to cool that re-aligns the crystalline structure at a molecular level, making the aluminum more malleable. This is done to plate aluminum before bending and shaping. It makes it 'softer' but not 'weaker'. A very good demonstration of this was done by Jesse James in the documentary Motorcycle Mania where he anneals plate aluminum before shaping it to create a gas tank.
Going back to my points about doing a weld repair on the mast, like I said the heat from the weld alone will destroy the anodize, the annealing will further damage the anodize so that area or the entire mast will have to be painted (more work, more money). I think that's further reason to just buy a new mast.
I'd have to disagree about using the MIG process for a mast repair. MIG with aluminum requires the use of a Spool Gun, a set up that is more aimed at high volume manufacturing (quickly welding trailer frames for example). This is typically done at high Amps on much thicker aluminum than this mast extrusion and the beads will be big and ugly. TIG, with skilled hand/eye and amp control is the way to go.
For the patch process (if elected), I agree that stress on the rivets could cause them to loosen over time... however, this is why you use many rivets, very close together. Install the correct size rivet at close interval with a pneumatic rivet gun. On a patch that is say three inches wide and rivets around the whole way is equalizing the stress and flex across all the fasteners. If done correctly it could be technically stronger than a weld repair. If flexing caused and rivets to loosen over time they could be drilled and reinstalled without even going up in size, so you really wouldn't need to start over.
My recommendation is still to find a new (or used but in good condition) mast. If I was doing this repair because the need is to get back on the water right away I would be very confident that the patch would not only work well and cost less, but I would have all the confidence that it would hold up and prevent any further damage from the separating seam issue.
One last note, the patch will need to be annealed to. Since it is a separate piece it will be done off the mast so heating will not damage the mast. Bend the patch to match the curve of the mast, then over bend it just a little more. Prime and paint it silver to blend in well with the mast anodize color. Use aluminum rivets, NOT Stainless!! Pneumatic rivet guns are not expensive, mine came from Harbor Freight and works flawlessly, $25.
I might agree that it would be best to replace the mast, but as we dont know the condition of the boat or where or how its sailed, I am assuming its an average boat used in the average manner... not offshore, not in high wind racing, and not abused in any manner that would cause abnormal stress to the rigging... so welding is a viable option for the repair of the existing mast, and it is the best option both cosmetically and for longevity as long as its use in heavy weather is kept to a minimum.
But it does need to be done by someone very competent, and not by some backyard experimentalist mechanic who does welding on the side.
The mast is light aluminum, but it really isnt so thin that MIG welding is not an option.
The TIG process is absolutely the best method, without question, but for someone who has spent most of their life MIG welding aluminum, you can be certain they will know how to weld extruded aluminum with a MIG welder, which is much different than extremely thin aluminum or cast aluminum where the TIG process really comes into play.
If the mast extrusion was as thin as an aluminum window frame or shower door frame, then I would have a different opinion, but the mast metal is nearly twice as thick...
The Tig process has much less build up, but in this case, it shouldnt be an issue, and some build up may even be a bit desirable in the acute location of the crack to reinforce it, although it would be unnecessary if it was welded perfectly and anealed properly..
wrapping the mast and using rivits is an acceptable temporary repair, but no matter how many rivits you place in it and how heavy the wrapping is, there will always be a "hard spot" in the mast at the location of the wrap.. the rest of the mast will work as it needs to over its entire length, except for the hard spot which will collect all the stress. Its inevitable that the rivits will soon begin to work and loosen, and with the moisture that gets in, probable corrosion, and it will eventually need to be repaired again... or replaced which has already been suggested.
But it does need to be done by someone very competent, and not by some backyard experimentalist mechanic who does welding on the side.
The mast is light aluminum, but it really isnt so thin that MIG welding is not an option.
The TIG process is absolutely the best method, without question, but for someone who has spent most of their life MIG welding aluminum, you can be certain they will know how to weld extruded aluminum with a MIG welder, which is much different than extremely thin aluminum or cast aluminum where the TIG process really comes into play.
If the mast extrusion was as thin as an aluminum window frame or shower door frame, then I would have a different opinion, but the mast metal is nearly twice as thick...
The Tig process has much less build up, but in this case, it shouldnt be an issue, and some build up may even be a bit desirable in the acute location of the crack to reinforce it, although it would be unnecessary if it was welded perfectly and anealed properly..
wrapping the mast and using rivits is an acceptable temporary repair, but no matter how many rivits you place in it and how heavy the wrapping is, there will always be a "hard spot" in the mast at the location of the wrap.. the rest of the mast will work as it needs to over its entire length, except for the hard spot which will collect all the stress. Its inevitable that the rivits will soon begin to work and loosen, and with the moisture that gets in, probable corrosion, and it will eventually need to be repaired again... or replaced which has already been suggested.
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More updated photos. I currently have planned to get the (seem separation) cracks welded by a professional tig welder on Friday. The cost of a replacement is 3000.00 shipped from catalina direct. The boat was sailed in the rockies mountains and subjected to high shifting winds and severe micro bursts ( ghost lake, for a reason!!!!!)
I appreciate all the comments so far, I just can't full understand why it would have separated on just the 1 side???
congratulations
i am glad to see you think out of the box i personally like welding but am reluctant to recommend it as it seems to ruffle some feathers around here and if there is one thing i hate is to watch foghorn leghorn trying to groom his ruffled feathers
Well... its a good acceptable idea on boats that are designed to have shorter masts... but in thinking your suggestion thru to the end, if one was to cut their mast off 8 inches, then they need to shorten the rigging also so it fits.... and the boom will be lower in the cockpit and the jib may have to be shortened so it has clearance on the foredeck....
And then it becomes a "wildcat" rig, or experimental, or an aborti... or there are other things it could be called, but its getting away from any easy future repairs and/or anything someone would want to purchase in the future, so the cost could actually rise while the boat value drops considerably...
So no matter how you look at it, its not a cheaper alternative.
But its done quite often by people who dont care about these things, but only think in the moment... so it IS an option, but not as good as a proper repair or replacement will be.