I do not seem to have good luck with pop rivets. I use a hand pop rivet tool (Arrow, I think) and the results are usually loose, sloppy rivets. I now favor tapping and using machine screws for most projects. I'd like to remove the mast base and/or head to take care of some halyard slap problems. Before doing so, I'd like to ask those that have succesfully done this how successful they were in reinstalling the parts with pop rivets. Is there any special tool or type of rivet to use? I don't think machine screws would work. By the way, I'm speaking of a '97 h26. Thanks
- Status
No Problem at All on My 23.5
I wonder if you are using a wrong size rivet, too long? They are cheap enough to go through a couple till you get it right. I would be concerned about corrosion and the likely possibility of having to drill the thing out next time anyway if using a screw. I would rather drill out a rivet
I wonder if you are using a wrong size rivet, too long? They are cheap enough to go through a couple till you get it right. I would be concerned about corrosion and the likely possibility of having to drill the thing out next time anyway if using a screw. I would rather drill out a rivet
If possible tap it and use bolts
I have a 23.5 that has a Z Spar mast. I recently drilled out the rivets to install an antenna cable. I followed Brigg Franklin's suggestion (Thanks Brigg!)and drilled the holes to the proper size, tapped the holes and used 1/4-inch stainless bolts instead of rivets. I'm not familiar with your mast base but this process worked pretty well on my mast. Good Luck
I have a 23.5 that has a Z Spar mast. I recently drilled out the rivets to install an antenna cable. I followed Brigg Franklin's suggestion (Thanks Brigg!)and drilled the holes to the proper size, tapped the holes and used 1/4-inch stainless bolts instead of rivets. I'm not familiar with your mast base but this process worked pretty well on my mast. Good Luck
Rivets
Well, I own a H260 and also happen to work for Arrow. Rivet size may be the answer. We most common rivet sizes you will find are the 1/8" and 3/16" dia. THey also are labeled by grip range Short (1/8") a Medium (1/4") and long (1/2"). There are also spacers available to take care of the "in betweens". I have not looked at mine, but if they require a rivet larger than what I listed above, the best place to go would be an auatomitive store. They generally stock a 1/4" and up rivets.
Well, I own a H260 and also happen to work for Arrow. Rivet size may be the answer. We most common rivet sizes you will find are the 1/8" and 3/16" dia. THey also are labeled by grip range Short (1/8") a Medium (1/4") and long (1/2"). There are also spacers available to take care of the "in betweens". I have not looked at mine, but if they require a rivet larger than what I listed above, the best place to go would be an auatomitive store. They generally stock a 1/4" and up rivets.
Mike/Jonathan
Thanks Mike. It may just be me but I recently installed a "sail jockey" on the boom which came with (supposedly) the proper sized rivets and had the same frustration. I ended up tapping and using screws. Jonathan - Did you thread both the mast and the base insert? If so, was the base insert any problem? Mine is a darker metal...I don't know if it is aluminum or not. Thanks and sorry if those are dumb questions.
Thanks Mike. It may just be me but I recently installed a "sail jockey" on the boom which came with (supposedly) the proper sized rivets and had the same frustration. I ended up tapping and using screws. Jonathan - Did you thread both the mast and the base insert? If so, was the base insert any problem? Mine is a darker metal...I don't know if it is aluminum or not. Thanks and sorry if those are dumb questions.
Tap the base only
Tim, I found it easier to tap if I drilled the hole in the mast ever so slightly larger than the hole in the base plate (1/64" or 1/32")because they may not line up perfectly when you tap and/or screw your bolt in and you can run the risk of cross threading. Remember the base plate is some sort of soft alloy. Here is a simple procedure to ensure you get your holes to line up. 1)Put your base plate in the mast and drill all the holes through the mast AND base plate using the SMALLER bit. 2)Remove the base plate from the mast and drill your holes in the mast slightly larger. (If you don't have the next increment size bit you could probably use the same bit and just round out the hole slightly reaming it in and out a few times. Just large enough that the bolt or tap pass through without catching on the hole) 3) Tap the holes in your base plate and reinstall on the mast using stainless bolts. I used 1/4" bolts rather than 10-24 machine screws. Hope this helps.
Tim, I found it easier to tap if I drilled the hole in the mast ever so slightly larger than the hole in the base plate (1/64" or 1/32")because they may not line up perfectly when you tap and/or screw your bolt in and you can run the risk of cross threading. Remember the base plate is some sort of soft alloy. Here is a simple procedure to ensure you get your holes to line up. 1)Put your base plate in the mast and drill all the holes through the mast AND base plate using the SMALLER bit. 2)Remove the base plate from the mast and drill your holes in the mast slightly larger. (If you don't have the next increment size bit you could probably use the same bit and just round out the hole slightly reaming it in and out a few times. Just large enough that the bolt or tap pass through without catching on the hole) 3) Tap the holes in your base plate and reinstall on the mast using stainless bolts. I used 1/4" bolts rather than 10-24 machine screws. Hope this helps.
Tap and coat it.
I'm with Jonathan. The staff at West Marine told me to tap the mast when ever possible and then coat the screws with "LanoCote". It keeps them from burring or corroding with different metal types. When you use machine screws instead of pop rivits, you can take the part off much easier the next time, when you figure out you left the screw driver inside the mast. (That would never happen to me, of course.. :^) It is also much stronger than pop riveting, though I have nothing against the rivets. It's what Hunter uses. Brigg
I'm with Jonathan. The staff at West Marine told me to tap the mast when ever possible and then coat the screws with "LanoCote". It keeps them from burring or corroding with different metal types. When you use machine screws instead of pop rivits, you can take the part off much easier the next time, when you figure out you left the screw driver inside the mast. (That would never happen to me, of course.. :^) It is also much stronger than pop riveting, though I have nothing against the rivets. It's what Hunter uses. Brigg
What is Lanocote
Brigg, From your message I assume the Lanocote acts as some type of insulating material because of the potential for corrosion due to the dissimilar metals between the aluminum and stainless. (I'm digressing to my materials science class in college!) Anyway, where do you get this stuff? My only concern would be that if you use lanocote then you can't use a thread lock substance like Loc-tite.
Brigg, From your message I assume the Lanocote acts as some type of insulating material because of the potential for corrosion due to the dissimilar metals between the aluminum and stainless. (I'm digressing to my materials science class in college!) Anyway, where do you get this stuff? My only concern would be that if you use lanocote then you can't use a thread lock substance like Loc-tite.
mast base
I do not recommend the use of screws whereby you tap at the base. That would be ok on the top of the mast but there is more pressure at the base and pop riviting with stainless steel pop rivits is highly recommended. Most pop rivit guns you buy at the hardware store will not work for the standard size pop rivits. You will need to borrow an industrial type or rent one unless you know someone else that might have it. I have seen the end result of mast bases on several masts coming off where they were screwed in at the bottom. Crazy Dave Condon
I do not recommend the use of screws whereby you tap at the base. That would be ok on the top of the mast but there is more pressure at the base and pop riviting with stainless steel pop rivits is highly recommended. Most pop rivit guns you buy at the hardware store will not work for the standard size pop rivits. You will need to borrow an industrial type or rent one unless you know someone else that might have it. I have seen the end result of mast bases on several masts coming off where they were screwed in at the bottom. Crazy Dave Condon
Screws verses rivets
The first time I removed my mast base I drilled out the ALUMINUM pop rivets installed at the factory. I reinstalled the same aluminum pop rivits with a tool purchased from Homedepot. The next time I removed the mast, I said to myself their has to be an easier way. The staff at West Marine urged me to tap the shoe at the mast base and use stainless screws. Since the mast is aluminum and the shoe appears to be a cast "pot-metal" their is already a difference in metals. So using an anti-seize lubricant that also prevents galvanic corrosion is a very good idea. Look on page 511 of the latest WM catalog for Anti-seize products. The "LanoCote" product is not listed, but I got it from WM. The advantage of screws is they will come out when you next want them out and they are stronger than the origional aluminum pop-rivets. Also, rivets will loosen over time due to the movement between the two riveted pieces while screws will not. I haven't had any of my screws loosen even a little. Since the shoe at the mast base sits inside the mast tude, their is NOT much pressure on the rivet or on the screw which ever you use, while the mast is up. The biggest problem is while raising or lowering the mast and in transport. The opinion of the West Marine staff and mine is that either screw or rivet are acceptable, but the screw is preferable. Brigg
The first time I removed my mast base I drilled out the ALUMINUM pop rivets installed at the factory. I reinstalled the same aluminum pop rivits with a tool purchased from Homedepot. The next time I removed the mast, I said to myself their has to be an easier way. The staff at West Marine urged me to tap the shoe at the mast base and use stainless screws. Since the mast is aluminum and the shoe appears to be a cast "pot-metal" their is already a difference in metals. So using an anti-seize lubricant that also prevents galvanic corrosion is a very good idea. Look on page 511 of the latest WM catalog for Anti-seize products. The "LanoCote" product is not listed, but I got it from WM. The advantage of screws is they will come out when you next want them out and they are stronger than the origional aluminum pop-rivets. Also, rivets will loosen over time due to the movement between the two riveted pieces while screws will not. I haven't had any of my screws loosen even a little. Since the shoe at the mast base sits inside the mast tude, their is NOT much pressure on the rivet or on the screw which ever you use, while the mast is up. The biggest problem is while raising or lowering the mast and in transport. The opinion of the West Marine staff and mine is that either screw or rivet are acceptable, but the screw is preferable. Brigg
I'm happy with the pop-rivets
Last year when I lowered my mast I forgot the extra stansions - this is stupid I agree, and it will not happen again. And as the mast was more than halfway down the wind got hold of it turning it sideways - and luckily the pop-rivets went off like matches and the end of the mast was completely unhurt as well as the mast foot. Tha mast landed fairly softly with no major damage and this year I put new rivets in place "and go on sailing happily ever after". With stainless screws I might have had a bent mast or a broken mast foot. toomas
Last year when I lowered my mast I forgot the extra stansions - this is stupid I agree, and it will not happen again. And as the mast was more than halfway down the wind got hold of it turning it sideways - and luckily the pop-rivets went off like matches and the end of the mast was completely unhurt as well as the mast foot. Tha mast landed fairly softly with no major damage and this year I put new rivets in place "and go on sailing happily ever after". With stainless screws I might have had a bent mast or a broken mast foot. toomas
You Are Not Alone Toomas
I now attach the bridles to the gin pole when not in use. Now I would have to be truly stupid to do it again.
I now attach the bridles to the gin pole when not in use. Now I would have to be truly stupid to do it again.
1999 H260 has screws from factory
Mine was delivered with machine screws for both tha mast base and top. I've had both ends off from time to time installing the VHF antenna and other projects, and find it very convenient to take on/off. My 2 cents... Tom
Mine was delivered with machine screws for both tha mast base and top. I've had both ends off from time to time installing the VHF antenna and other projects, and find it very convenient to take on/off. My 2 cents... Tom
thats because you have a different mast
at one point hunter used several masts. for myself, I like the ss poprivets. crazy dAve
at one point hunter used several masts. for myself, I like the ss poprivets. crazy dAve
Not selling screws
I'm not trying to sell anyone on using either screws or rivets. Both are adequate for most purposes and sometimes rivets are much prefered. I was reminded of this last week when trying to put two fairly thin pieces of metal together. If the metal is not thick enough to take 5 or 6 good threads, so the screw can get a good bite, you are better off using rivets. The rivet mushrooms inside the metal and provides its own "washer" while the head comes flaired out. This spreads the load over a larger area on the thin metal surface. I used pop-rivets when I moved the windex, at the mast top, aft to make room for the radio antenna. The metal was all thin and light weight and the aluminum rivets were easy to use and I don't plan to move any of the pieces (see photo). I put this project here, last year, on the projects page and on my personal sailing site "Northstarsailing". We have been talking about attaching things to the mast and mast base which are quite thick and will hold a lot of threads, or are heavy. My personal preference, and I'm not trying to sell anyone else on this, is to use screws in this area because I know I will be opening the mast again to add other "toys" like a deck light. So if you like rivets like Dave or you like screws like Jonathan, just make sure you are comfortable with what you are doing before you start, or ask lots of questions here. Brigg
I'm not trying to sell anyone on using either screws or rivets. Both are adequate for most purposes and sometimes rivets are much prefered. I was reminded of this last week when trying to put two fairly thin pieces of metal together. If the metal is not thick enough to take 5 or 6 good threads, so the screw can get a good bite, you are better off using rivets. The rivet mushrooms inside the metal and provides its own "washer" while the head comes flaired out. This spreads the load over a larger area on the thin metal surface. I used pop-rivets when I moved the windex, at the mast top, aft to make room for the radio antenna. The metal was all thin and light weight and the aluminum rivets were easy to use and I don't plan to move any of the pieces (see photo). I put this project here, last year, on the projects page and on my personal sailing site "Northstarsailing". We have been talking about attaching things to the mast and mast base which are quite thick and will hold a lot of threads, or are heavy. My personal preference, and I'm not trying to sell anyone else on this, is to use screws in this area because I know I will be opening the mast again to add other "toys" like a deck light. So if you like rivets like Dave or you like screws like Jonathan, just make sure you are comfortable with what you are doing before you start, or ask lots of questions here. Brigg
Attachments
Brigg
We all have different opinions but I have always said that experience is the best teacher and when it comes to these boats, I know themm very well. You are correct about pop rivets but one of the masts used screws which is ok but the thickness of the mast on that one was thicker. Crazy Dave
We all have different opinions but I have always said that experience is the best teacher and when it comes to these boats, I know themm very well. You are correct about pop rivets but one of the masts used screws which is ok but the thickness of the mast on that one was thicker. Crazy Dave
- Status