This is for Crazy Dave - or anyone else who might know. Took our H23 down to a public launch ramp yesterday to put it in the water and get it to our slip. When trying to hook up the boom-vang, we noticed the "loop" on the casting at the bottom of the mast was cracked. This "loop" is just above the mast pin. We have a z-spar mast. Question is whether this is criticle for the mast and sailing? We motored over to the slip and the mast was still standing. We did tighten the stays and all seems well. What do we do? Can it be welded? Is it aluminum? Is a replacement available? Thanks for your replys. Bill Bowman, Muskegon, MI H23.
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crazy dave
No no no no no no no no to welding
The loop that I assume you are talking about is where the mast pin goes in to lock the base of the mast to the mast step. I would highly reccomend that you replace the mast step. Contact Julian at US Spars and tell him your mast is that of a 23 You may get a response to weld but trust me on this one and get a new base. As long as the old one is holding for now, sail only in light moderate winds only. Crazy Dave Condon
The loop that I assume you are talking about is where the mast pin goes in to lock the base of the mast to the mast step. I would highly reccomend that you replace the mast step. Contact Julian at US Spars and tell him your mast is that of a 23 You may get a response to weld but trust me on this one and get a new base. As long as the old one is holding for now, sail only in light moderate winds only. Crazy Dave Condon
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Kelly
I had the same problem last year on my Hunter 23.5. I called Z-Spar and oredered a new mast base and step. It cost about $60.00. I removed four screws and replaced it myself in less than twenty mins.
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Brian Conneely
what do you suspect was the cause?
Bill, Do you think that this occured due to the stresses exerted by the boom vang leading to crack propagation? Im curious to find out because Im trying to decide on where to make sound vang attachments. Brian kickin' back
Bill, Do you think that this occured due to the stresses exerted by the boom vang leading to crack propagation? Im curious to find out because Im trying to decide on where to make sound vang attachments. Brian kickin' back
Loop at mast base
This loop is either where the boom vang attaches or where the hinge pin goes for raising the mast. How severe the problem is depends on your mast base. If you have the base with the sheaves in it (pull up on the halyards to raise sail) then you may have some trouble, as this casting is VERY hard to come by. US Spars probably won't have it. They do have another casting that will fit this mast. However, it's about three inches shorter than the old one so you'll have to shorten all your stay and shrouds (seven total). You'll also have to change the mast base on the deck and cut new halyard exits in the mast. Here's the good news. The stability of the mast is not at risk. The step on the cabin top has two flanges that fit in two recesses on the bottom of the mast base. Even with the standing rigging slack, the mast base will not move. If the cracked loop is for the vang, simply fasten a stainless steel boom bail to the mast just above the base using sheet metal screws. Total cost is about $5 and 15 mins. of your time. If the loops are for the mast raising hinge pin, build one of the mast raising rigs that doesn't depend on the hinge. Total cost about $45 and four hours of your time. Happy sailing. Peter H23 "Raven"
This loop is either where the boom vang attaches or where the hinge pin goes for raising the mast. How severe the problem is depends on your mast base. If you have the base with the sheaves in it (pull up on the halyards to raise sail) then you may have some trouble, as this casting is VERY hard to come by. US Spars probably won't have it. They do have another casting that will fit this mast. However, it's about three inches shorter than the old one so you'll have to shorten all your stay and shrouds (seven total). You'll also have to change the mast base on the deck and cut new halyard exits in the mast. Here's the good news. The stability of the mast is not at risk. The step on the cabin top has two flanges that fit in two recesses on the bottom of the mast base. Even with the standing rigging slack, the mast base will not move. If the cracked loop is for the vang, simply fasten a stainless steel boom bail to the mast just above the base using sheet metal screws. Total cost is about $5 and 15 mins. of your time. If the loops are for the mast raising hinge pin, build one of the mast raising rigs that doesn't depend on the hinge. Total cost about $45 and four hours of your time. Happy sailing. Peter H23 "Raven"
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Bill Bowman
Mast Base Crack New Info
My boat partner is the one who discovered the crack. In all the other stuff going on, I did not look at it. It turns out that the crack is on the ear on the starboard side where the pin goes in, not the loop where the vang is attached. We went through the logic of what the pin is really for. Came so similar conclusions that the mast itself is not really going to "slip" off the step, unless we hit a huricane or something. It is something that needs to be corrected, but our feeling is we can still go sailing. We are building experience and will not be going out in known STRONG winds. As to why it cracked. We bought the boat last summer. The guy who had it said he was the original owner and had trailered it a lot some summers, put it in the water others. We think it is because of basicly wear and tear because of use and maybe a little bit of side to side play when raising the mast. Last year we built the bi-pod to help reduce the side to side tilting and it has really helped. We have put the mast up three times and down twice. We did not notice the crack til Sunday, that doesn't mean it wasn't there last year. It is something to check out, just to know, but I don't think it is an inherent failure. It is the most "used" part of the mast, if you step it a lot. I have contacted US Spars, but have no reply yet. Any one know about Rig-Rite?? Then advertise on the internet as a Z-spar "dealer" and replacement parts provider. Will check with them also. Thanks for the info everyone. Bill Bowman
My boat partner is the one who discovered the crack. In all the other stuff going on, I did not look at it. It turns out that the crack is on the ear on the starboard side where the pin goes in, not the loop where the vang is attached. We went through the logic of what the pin is really for. Came so similar conclusions that the mast itself is not really going to "slip" off the step, unless we hit a huricane or something. It is something that needs to be corrected, but our feeling is we can still go sailing. We are building experience and will not be going out in known STRONG winds. As to why it cracked. We bought the boat last summer. The guy who had it said he was the original owner and had trailered it a lot some summers, put it in the water others. We think it is because of basicly wear and tear because of use and maybe a little bit of side to side play when raising the mast. Last year we built the bi-pod to help reduce the side to side tilting and it has really helped. We have put the mast up three times and down twice. We did not notice the crack til Sunday, that doesn't mean it wasn't there last year. It is something to check out, just to know, but I don't think it is an inherent failure. It is the most "used" part of the mast, if you step it a lot. I have contacted US Spars, but have no reply yet. Any one know about Rig-Rite?? Then advertise on the internet as a Z-spar "dealer" and replacement parts provider. Will check with them also. Thanks for the info everyone. Bill Bowman
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Kevin Keen
Danger Will Robinson!
Bill: Don't sail until the problem is corrected. I am still not clear from your messages as to whether the crack is in the mast or in the maststep. Either way, you don't want to take a chance with metal fatigue and a much more costly repair bill and the possibility of personal injury. - Kevin.
Bill: Don't sail until the problem is corrected. I am still not clear from your messages as to whether the crack is in the mast or in the maststep. Either way, you don't want to take a chance with metal fatigue and a much more costly repair bill and the possibility of personal injury. - Kevin.
Not to worry
Guess how I know so much about this problem? I have not one but two broken "eyes" or "ears" or "loops". They're for the mast raising hinge pin. Cracked or missing "loops" won't affect the stabllity of the mast once it's raised. I've been sailing the boat without them for the last two years. Mast raising is a little trickier than before, but the bipod rig solved that problem too. Peter H23 "Raven"
Guess how I know so much about this problem? I have not one but two broken "eyes" or "ears" or "loops". They're for the mast raising hinge pin. Cracked or missing "loops" won't affect the stabllity of the mast once it's raised. I've been sailing the boat without them for the last two years. Mast raising is a little trickier than before, but the bipod rig solved that problem too. Peter H23 "Raven"
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crazy dave
mast step
IF the mast step is broken primarily where the pin is, then repalce immediately. Peter you have been lucky that the mast has not slipped. I know of a mast failure on a 23 because the individual did not replace the mast step as the retaining pin was not in place becuasse those loops were broken off. This is simply experience teaching me guys. I leave the decision up to you but for your safety, agree with me and get another. It does not cost much. Crazy dave condon
IF the mast step is broken primarily where the pin is, then repalce immediately. Peter you have been lucky that the mast has not slipped. I know of a mast failure on a 23 because the individual did not replace the mast step as the retaining pin was not in place becuasse those loops were broken off. This is simply experience teaching me guys. I leave the decision up to you but for your safety, agree with me and get another. It does not cost much. Crazy dave condon
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Bill Bowman
Mast Base Crack - Replacement Info
OK, Here's the story. The crack is on the starboard "ear" where the pin goes into the mast base - the part that is on the mast and has the halyard sheeves. It is on the top of the ear and completely through it. It is not a GAP, just a noticable crack. Julian at US Spars says the part is no longer available. He did refer me to Rig-Rite, a Z-spar dealer of US Spars. Rig-Rite says they are no longer in production, BUT, upon exact identification - there are four types of bases - one can be obtained from France. The cost is about $235. We will try sailing, carefully and monitor the crack for a little while. Julian said that welding IS an option. We will be looking for a shop in the area with expertise with aluminum and see if we can get it welded. We will probably get a replacement from/thru Rig-Rite later unless something else turns up. Thanks for the replies, everyone. We will be careful and report on the outcomes later. Bill Bowman, Muskegon, MI
OK, Here's the story. The crack is on the starboard "ear" where the pin goes into the mast base - the part that is on the mast and has the halyard sheeves. It is on the top of the ear and completely through it. It is not a GAP, just a noticable crack. Julian at US Spars says the part is no longer available. He did refer me to Rig-Rite, a Z-spar dealer of US Spars. Rig-Rite says they are no longer in production, BUT, upon exact identification - there are four types of bases - one can be obtained from France. The cost is about $235. We will try sailing, carefully and monitor the crack for a little while. Julian said that welding IS an option. We will be looking for a shop in the area with expertise with aluminum and see if we can get it welded. We will probably get a replacement from/thru Rig-Rite later unless something else turns up. Thanks for the replies, everyone. We will be careful and report on the outcomes later. Bill Bowman, Muskegon, MI
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Brian Conneely
Are there variations in the mast step hardware?
Im beginning to think that Hunter may have used a variety of mast stepping brackets during the years H23 was in production. Mine is an 87 with the zspar mast and uses a bracket that resembles rabbit ears and protrudes appx 4 in above the deck with a 5/16? ss bolt travelling through the center of the foot. According to the previous post this seems to be different from the rest. Does anyone else use this bracket or are there other variations in use with the zspar mast? I was hoping to upgrade the stepping bracket to something that could accomodate turning blocks. Brian h23 kickin' back
Im beginning to think that Hunter may have used a variety of mast stepping brackets during the years H23 was in production. Mine is an 87 with the zspar mast and uses a bracket that resembles rabbit ears and protrudes appx 4 in above the deck with a 5/16? ss bolt travelling through the center of the foot. According to the previous post this seems to be different from the rest. Does anyone else use this bracket or are there other variations in use with the zspar mast? I was hoping to upgrade the stepping bracket to something that could accomodate turning blocks. Brian h23 kickin' back
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Frank
Steps for Z-Spar masts
I have seen four different mast bases on the "bendy" Z-Spar mast. This is the mast with the taper at the top above he forestay attachment point. The base being discussed in this thread is the casting with two built-in sheaves for the halyards. This is the step and base I have. The halyards exit at the bottom of the mast, so you pull UP on them to raise sail. There are two ears on the rear of the base for the mast raising hinge pin. These are the ears that cracked (or broke completely off in my case) They are used just for raising the mast. There is NO locking pin in front. However, the underside of the base has two slots that match two tabs on the mast step on top of the cabin. The hinge pin goes through the rear tab on the nast step. Once the mast is near vertical, the tabs engage the slots and the mast base can't move. As several people (myself included) have found, this base is either no longer available or extremely expensive. The second base has a beefier hinge pin at the rear. This is the base that appears on the US Spars website for the H23. The step for this base has horizontal flanges on either side. The flanges have holes for mounting turning blocks so halyards can be run back to the cockpit. The halyards exit this mast above the winch, so you pull down to raise sail. I was quoted a price of $110 for this base and step. If you look carefully at the diagram, you will see two vertical tabs in the step as well. See attached link below. The third base has a hinge pin at the rear AND a locking pin at the front. I think this is the stock base on the H23.5. Otherwise, this step and base match the second type described above. Price is about the same also. The fourth base was a simple plug in the bottom of the mast. A 3/8" hole was drilled through the mast from one side to the other for the hinge pin, which also fit through the vertical sides of the deep aluminum channel step. The step was custom made by a local machine shop. Again, the halyards exit the mast above the winch. To set your mind at ease about the mast moving, lower it and examine the step and base. As long as you have the vertical tabs on the step and matching slots on the underside of the mast base, you should be OK. I haven't had any problems in over two years. Peter H23 "Raven"
I have seen four different mast bases on the "bendy" Z-Spar mast. This is the mast with the taper at the top above he forestay attachment point. The base being discussed in this thread is the casting with two built-in sheaves for the halyards. This is the step and base I have. The halyards exit at the bottom of the mast, so you pull UP on them to raise sail. There are two ears on the rear of the base for the mast raising hinge pin. These are the ears that cracked (or broke completely off in my case) They are used just for raising the mast. There is NO locking pin in front. However, the underside of the base has two slots that match two tabs on the mast step on top of the cabin. The hinge pin goes through the rear tab on the nast step. Once the mast is near vertical, the tabs engage the slots and the mast base can't move. As several people (myself included) have found, this base is either no longer available or extremely expensive. The second base has a beefier hinge pin at the rear. This is the base that appears on the US Spars website for the H23. The step for this base has horizontal flanges on either side. The flanges have holes for mounting turning blocks so halyards can be run back to the cockpit. The halyards exit this mast above the winch, so you pull down to raise sail. I was quoted a price of $110 for this base and step. If you look carefully at the diagram, you will see two vertical tabs in the step as well. See attached link below. The third base has a hinge pin at the rear AND a locking pin at the front. I think this is the stock base on the H23.5. Otherwise, this step and base match the second type described above. Price is about the same also. The fourth base was a simple plug in the bottom of the mast. A 3/8" hole was drilled through the mast from one side to the other for the hinge pin, which also fit through the vertical sides of the deep aluminum channel step. The step was custom made by a local machine shop. Again, the halyards exit the mast above the winch. To set your mind at ease about the mast moving, lower it and examine the step and base. As long as you have the vertical tabs on the step and matching slots on the underside of the mast base, you should be OK. I haven't had any problems in over two years. Peter H23 "Raven"
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