Marvel Mystery Oil question for diesel owners.

[CalebD]

After reading all the posts on Startron diesel additive (biocide etc) and the discussions of ULSD (ultra low sulphur diesel) and loss of lubricity from this process I was wondering if any of you with diesel engines use Marvel Mystery Oil as a fuel AND oil additive as I do on my ancient Atomic 4 (gasoline engine). Adding MMO to both fuel and lubrication systems comes from recommendations by Don Moyer of Moyer Marine Inc (MMI) who is an Atomic 4 engine specialist (not a diesel specialist)? I ask this question because I helped a friend with his Universal Atomic Diesel (5430 or something - I will never know why they labeled both a gas and diesel with the moniker of 'Atomic' which does not go over well when discussing your engine with the CG these days) and wonder what more I could do for him. The other thread stated that the Nigel Calder book says you can add up to a quart of your favorite oil to the diesel for lubrication so I assume that adding Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) would cause no harm as it is a 3W weight oil - probably similar to diesel but perhaps even lighter). While I am at it I will ask how many diesel owners use StaBil (or equivalent fuel stabilizer) to their tanks when they fill up or winterize their engines? All responses are appreciated if you have good/bad or no experience using Moyer Mystery Oil in your diesel as a lubrication AND/OR fuel system additive. Thanks.

 

[Landsend]

I used to add it to the fuel tanks in my Porsches.

As per the mechanics reccomendations. Never used it in my sailboat. Love the aroma.

 

[jackhartjr]

Caleb, not trying to start anything here...

...however...in you post you said, "and loss of lubricity from this process:.Who said there is a loss of lubricity? Probably the folks selling the snake oil products. The manufacturers of fuel, (Scumbags that is) put additives back in the fuel.I wish I could remember where I read it...some government agency had tested 96 (I think) products that "Suggested" better fuel mileage. Not ONE singe one helped. I remember now, I read that in Light and Heavy Duty Truck magazine.Again not tying to start anything...I hear the blanket statments about the fuel and have to respond to them. BTW, I have over 87,000 miles in a Duramax Diesel in just over a year, no problems! And that is running both fuels, LSD and ULSD.Jack

 

[Warren Milberg]

ULSD and lubricity

I believe the fuel industry has stated that the process of producing ULSD will reduce the lubricity of diesel fuel, but that they are adding back in a component to address that issue. Here is a partial quote:"Will the lubricity in #2 diesel change? Will there be any impact on engine warranties? While the base fuel's lubricity is changing, the finished fuel will include a lubricity additive to assure that it meets vehicle performance requirements. The nation-wide rollout of lubricity treatment of diesel fuel this year is in preparation for the transition to ULSD in 2006. The fuel, engine, and engine component industries have worked cooperatively over the last few years to address the issue of ULSD lubricity, resulting in an industry-wide consensus standard. ASTM International is in the process of establishing consensus standard testing equipment, specifications, and practices that will be fully implemented before June 2006."See link below.

 

[MoonSailer]

Snake Oil Always Sells!!!!!

Snake oil always sells. People buy it just to be safe. I remember reading about this additive that once tested was found to be simply kerosene. You were supposed to add it to the crankcase before changing the oil. I've heard about Marvel Mystery Oil for a long time....What is the stuff made of??? Those that believe in these products swear about their good effects...people hate to admit that spent good money on something worthless. Even old time additives like STP oil treatment are mostly snake oil. Most engine manufactureres recommend using only the correct oil without any additives. Just think about the hundreds of million lottery tickets sold each year. Often the odds of winning are extremely high like 1/100,000,000 but people still buy the tickets. Cynics call the lottery a "stupid tax" on stupid people. Most of these things are a relatively harmless waste of money. But some additives can hurt an engine. I read one additives label and it contained alcohol which is not good for diesels. The saddest lottery story that I've read was about this guy in virginia. He withdrew all of his 401K money about $50,000 and spent it all on lottery tickets. He figured that with that many tickets he had to win. But even 50,000/100,000,000 is a pretty long bet. 1 in 2000. I guess that he never had taken a math course. Anyway he lost his entire retirement fund.

 

[jackhartjr]

HOWEVER...

...I am using Marvel Mystery Oil to 'Fog' a Detroit 8V71 that has set for 25 years.It is good for things like that.Jack

 

[larry w]

fuel adds

In the West, Unocal fuel docks add Valvtech bio/stabalizer already, but my last fill up was with a smaller family owned fuel operation so I have to add some stuff for winter, even in So. Cal.

 

[CalebD]

Jack, MoonSailer, agree with your comments

#1 - Diesel fuel is inherently an oil and thus a lubricant. Why the need for additional lubrication then?#2 - There are so many 'snake oil' fixes in the auto parts store that claim all kinds of benefits of dubious nature.However, Marvel Mystery Oil has been around since before 1923 and was used by GM on their earlier model engines. The brand name has been around ever since. It was developed as a 'universal lubricant and cleaner' meaning it is composed mostly of SAE 3W oil with some solvents that seem to be beneficial for older, clunkier gasoline engines like my 40 year old Atomic 4. It claims to help clean up carburetors and possibly piston valves etc. See link on MMO here: http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633I am unsure about what benefits (if any) this stuff would provide for a diesel engine, that is my question. My limited understanding of diesels leads me to believe that you do not need to 'fog' a diesel as you do a gas engine for layup as the fuel itself is a lubricant.Thanks for your responses so far.

 

[RichH]

I used MMO during my 'sprint car' days ....

MMO can be used to 'top oil' a gasoline engine and also be added to the crankcase oil. The results the I had were an engine would last quite a bit longer between total tear-down and rebuild. How much saved ... 5%-10% maybe. I continued the practice for almost 40 years with my 'daily drivers' and routinely get 200K Mi between 'bottom jobs' (valve jobs, etc at ~60-80K). Especially MMO in the fuel seems to better lubricate the intake valve stems and also provides better lubrication for the piston rings/grooves. Less sticking piston rings means less adverse cylinder wall wear. MMO seems to keep the piston ring grooves VERY clean and with no carbon buildup deep in the grooves. In the crankcase, MMO seems to also prevent deposit formation although normal oil has alll these additives/surfactants. All this is a 'hunch' based on long term usage and rebuilding my own engines ...nothing more. Will MMO double the life of an engine? certainly not ... I'll take 5%. I do know that an engine that has 'frozen' (piston rings rusted in their grooves and sticking to the cylinder walls) due to long term junkyard storage, etc. can be brought back to life without breaking the rings, etc. by a simply 'soak' with MMO, then simply hand turning the engine .... better than penetrating, etc. oils. Im not concerned with injection pump wear .... just like when lead was removed from gasoline that reduction caused a lot of valve seats in older engines to be severely hammered due to the loss of 'cushion' the lead provided on the fave seat faces. The engine manufacturers simply changed to hardened valves and seat - problem solved. Until the ultra low sulphur fuel really starts to show adverse pump wear ... which will immediately also bring a solution .... I'll simply wait and see. As regards STABILIZERS for diesel fuel .... just be sure that you dont have any water in the bottom. This condensation BS is simply BS as unless you totally SEAL the fuel from the atmosphere water WILL enter the fuel by chemical/physical equilibrium and thats NOT dependent on how full or empty a tank is. Condensation only means that water is already IN the fuel, water is the medium for biological growth bilogical growth probably the CHIEF source of 'problems'. I empty my tanks for the winter and simply burn the fuel in my home oil burner (I run a desiccant water vapor trap on the tank vent line to prevent water uptake ... but still its better to empty the tank (so I dont have need to regenerate the desiccant). If you think that empty fuel tanks magically 'condense water' .... It only continues to validate that the USA public schools need to be sold off/closed down. Otherwise if the water is prevented or removed, the fuel oil will stay stable for perhaps another million or so years --- if you have a 'clean' tank to begin with. Gasoline in contrast sours quickly and rapidly forms gums and varnishes usualy within a month or two of production/storage .... and you definitely need a stabilizer for gasoline.  If the diesel oil is 'dry', no need to stabilize as relative few particles will 'grow' and agglomerate into larger and larger particles .... all due to the fungals and bacteria that thrive in the WATER (free water and emulsified water) within the fuel. I use a desiccant trap to prevent water vapor uptake and have a water knockout pot in my onboard polishing filter system ... NO water problems and simply dont need 'stabilizers nor biocides'. If you fill the tank and the tank has any water in the bottom, you're just adding fresh 'food' for the resin forming fungals and (pseudomonas) bacteria. Also remember that in wintertime the temps are low which will retard bio-growth .... the 'problem' occurs in spring and summer. Keep it simple and unemotional (snake oil, etc.) ... this is not a 'parsing contest' of never-important shysters or politicians, its just simple 'chemistry'. ;-)

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

it's your nickel

CalebIt probably won't hurt if used in moderation but it appear appears from the info below that "snake oil" might be a fitting description. No doubt people have used it for various thing for years but so too have peole spent millions on common cold remedies which alos "work" in 7-10 days...MARVEL OIL COMPANY, INC. -- MARVEL MYSTERY OIL -- 9150-00F003957 ===================== Product Identification ================================== Composition/Information on Ingredients =============Ingred Name:HYDROTREATED LIGHT DISTILLATE, PETROLEUM; C12-C15 ISOPARAFFINIC HYDROCARBONSCAS:64742-47-8Fraction by Wt: 30%Other REC Limits:300 PPM (MFR)OSHA PEL:500 PPMACGIH TLV:100 PPMIngred Name:MINERAL OIL, PETROLEUM DISTILLATES, SOLVENT-REFINED HEAVY NAPHTHENIC DISTILLATECAS:64741-96-4RTECS #Y8040000Fraction by Wt: <67%Ingred Name:MINERAL OIL, PETROLEUM DISTILLATES, SOLVENT-DEWAXED HEAVY NAPHTHENICCAS:64742-63-8RTECS #Y8038000Fraction by Wt: <67%

 

[Bob4203]

6 ounces every third fill up

I have been adding MMO to my restored 1973.5T Porsche 911 for years now. Its an excellent upper cylinder lubricant. Its very popular on piston aircraft engines; however I do not know from experience if it was engineered for diesel engines as well. I have a bottle at home and will have to read the label. Since its been around for 75+ years, I will assume its safe for anything where metal comes together! If it makes the engine slicker and does not add to ash buildup, or biofouls, then I will certainly use it in my Universal M-16.Bob

 

[Eddie7045]

MMO has achieved some respect over the years

from veteran mechanics and racing enthuiasts but I've never heard any of them tout it as a miracle additive. I used it in my gasoline marine engines to get some preventive effect for the valves and upper cylinder but in a diesel engine I'd think that it might be overkill and unnessesary.

 

[Rich Stidger]

I always use MMO on my snowblower

I do not use MMO inside any of my engines now but there have been times that I have added to the oil or gasoline in the past. I have never used it in a diesel engine.HOWEVER, it is a excellent lubricant that I put in a spray bottle and coat the inside of my snowblower at the start of each season. I also spray the face of my snow shovels. This stuff sticks like s**t to a blanket and will not wear off in a typical season like silicone spray. Neither snow nor ice will stick to my shovel or clog my blower.I also use it to coat metal parts that I don't want to rust- like spare sets of lawn mower blades.For those of you in the south who may not be familiar with snow, the use of MMO may be more limited.....

 

[higgs]

Only a biocide

We have no diesel in our harbor so I usually bring it down to the boat in a can. Nearby is a place that sells the high sulfer diesel so I bring it in from there.

 

[jackhartjr]

CalebD...

...the engine I am going to fog is an 8V71 Detroit (318) that had sat inside for about 15 to 20 years, then went outside 5 to 10 years ago. I am fogging it just in case there is some rust around the rings, the hope is that the MMO will cut through the rust, also that it will give it initial lubricity on (Attempt) at crake-up.This engine goes into a 1956 GMC-4501 Scenicruiser I am converting into a moterhome.ThanksJackPS...I figure it will either crank and run...or I get to rebuild it! (It was rebuild 25 years ago and never cranked!)

 

[RichH]

jackhartjr ----

Be sure you turn the engine over by hand, not the starter. Hand cranking, socket attached to the crankshafdt nut, will let you know real quick if the rings are frozen to their pistons. If the engine doesnt turn byu hand dont force anything .... just keep adding MMO down the injector holes let soak and then 'rock' the crank back and forth without too much arm pressure. Just be patient, dont force it, and by all means dont use much force to get the crankshaft to turn unless you are anxious to see what the piston rings, etc. look like. ;-) Once the engine is 'free' and doesnt bind at all through 360 degrees of crank rotation by hand .... fill the crankcase with MMO and run the engine at idle until warm then slowly bring it up to moderate speed (with the MMO in the crankcase). This will begin to 'repolish' the cylinder walls, etc. DONT apply any 'load' to the engine with MMO in the ccase. Then simply shut down drain the MMO and add 75% regular oil and 25% MMO until the next scheduled oil change. That should avoid a lot of 'problems'.

 

[Big Windy]

MMO

The only things that should be added to diesel engines are a Sta-Bil type product and a biocide for winterization. A GOOD high quality additive that is recommended by manufacturer's, not those selling it...Stanadyne comes to mind, would also be okay. MMO is not recommended for use by any manufacturer...in it's day, it was okay, but not in the sophisticated engines around today, and I would certainly not put it in my airplane.