Marlow Hunter

[Mikem]

Trying to end speculation on the status of Marlow Hunter i did something unusual. I called them and here is what I learned. They are open for business 8-5 Monday -Friday. They are trying to consolidate and move out of Alachua as it is a high tax and regulatory location. As to the new location that was somewhat vague...northern Florida. Also they are a factory sales facility only (and have been for the last 8-9 years according to the rep) and can give a 9.8% discount over retail price. With respect to new build, for the next 12 months they are building 15'-22' boats only. If I wanted something bigger call back in March or April or look for used boats on the market.

 

[SkookumZac]

This is good info. They still have the small boats on their site but I am surprised to hear they are actually building them.

-Z

 

[Brian S]

Nice to know they are still building small boats - that actually anyone is building small boats - but gosh I think the 15, 18, and 22 are not very pleasing to look at.

 

[Jackdaw]

Nice to know they are still building small boats - that actually anyone is building small boats - but gosh I think the 15, 18, and 22 are not very pleasing to look at.

Hmmm.. All of that mostly means is that they still have the molds for the smaller boats, but not the bigger ones. Anyway I suppose that they might build you an 18 if you buy one. But they for sure are not stocking dealers or building on spec. anymore. Those days are over. But I'm not sure why the EPA and OSHA would be any easier on small boat construction vs bigger. And I don't understand a business model that has skilled labor sitting around waiting for an order to come in.

This sounds like the old story of Tattoo yachts.

 

[BobbyFunn]

Try to buy an RS Venture, then try to buy a Hunter 18.

I can probably have an order for a Venture set up within 15 minutes. The specs are easy to see, the price for various options is right there. As if the customer loves boats and knows what they need to be happy. I love the "how many can i put you down for", spin buttons. I can have any RS boat in my cart now. Why of course have a visa...

Go to buy a Hunter 18 and they have you fill out some form to contact a dealer. Selling boats like its 1995. They dont give any price range. Better to let the dealer set me up and start the upselling i guess. I have to watch some other smucks pirated boat show walk around video to see the price tag.

Google Hunter 18 for sale and you get a bunch of used boat listings, no dealers show up.

Google RS Venture for sale and several shops show up, nothing used.

Hunter marlow is almost invisible to marketing for these small boats. Most videos are from people's vacation while Rs Sailboats seem to all be from professional video productipn firms. Does hunter have any marketing videos (not including the one reel-to-reel on youtube of a factory tour)? If they do they probably sound like a narration from mutual of omaha's wild kingdom and there are bragging that this boat is superior to everyone elses flimsy design.

Not saying RS Sailboats is better, just the marketing is worlds apart. Its hard to believe Hunter-marlow can survive without the drive the competitors have.

 

[Jackdaw]

Try to buy an RS Venture, then try to buy a Hunter 18.

I can probably have an order for a Venture set up within 15 minutes. The specs are easy to see, the price for various options is right there. As if the customer loves boats and knows what they need to be happy. I love the "how many can i put you down for", spin buttons. I can have any RS boat in my cart now. Why of course have a visa...

Go to buy a Hunter 18 and they have you fill out some form to contact a dealer. Selling boats like its 1995. They dont give any price range. Better to let the dealer set me up and start the upselling i guess. I have to watch some other smucks pirated boat show walk around video to see the price tag.

Google Hunter 18 for sale and you get a bunch of used boat listings, no dealers show up.

Google RS Venture for sale and several shops show up, nothing used.

Hunter marlow is almost invisible to marketing for these small boats. Most videos are from people's vacation while Rs Sailboats seem to all be from professional video productipn firms. Does hunter have any marketing videos (not including the one reel-to-reel on youtube of a factory tour)? If they do they probably sound like a narration from mutual of omaha's wild kingdom and there are bragging that this boat is superior to everyone elses flimsy design.

Not saying RS Sailboats is better, just the marketing is worlds apart. Its hard to believe Hunter-marlow can survive without the drive the competitors have.

#ForTheWin.

Don't get me started about RS.

Hunter 22 vs RS21???? Please.

#JustAteYourLunch

 

[Gene Neill]

They are trying to consolidate and move out of Alachua as it is a high tax and regulatory location.

I can certainly vouch for that much. The Alachua Board of County Commissioners never met a regulation or a tax they didn't love. I relocated across the county line some fifteen years ago to escape those National Socialists. Took my business with me.

I support Marlow Hunter or anyone else who does the same!

 

[sailnoproblem]

I am sure Hunter is only manned by a Skelton crew, just
like there past parent company Silverton/Lures before they went under.
Seems it's just history repeating, I've seen it to many times in this industry.

 

[Brian S]

#ForTheWin.

Don't get me started about RS.

Hunter 22 vs RS21???? Please.

#JustAteYourLunch

From what I've seen of the RS Aero, I *really* want one. Fast, light, and kickass. I know of dedicated Laser racers who have sold their Lasers and moved to Aeros.

So I'm assuming what Jackdaw is really saying here is that RS boats are really good.

I'm aware the RS21 is the new sport keelboat in town, but I don't know how they compare with a J/70 or a Melges 20. Seems like a crowded market for sportboats...

 

[Jackdaw]

From what I've seen of the RS Aero, I *really* want one. Fast, light, and kickass. I know of dedicated Laser racers who have sold their Lasers and moved to Aeros.

So I'm assuming what Jackdaw is really saying here is that RS boats are really good.

I'm aware the RS21 is the new sport keelboat in town, but I don't know how they compare with a J/70 or a Melges 20. Seems like a crowded market for sportboats...

The RS21 is WAY more user friendly than a J70, and costs was less. Beginners can sail it. Putter around. Get good, and it planes. Boat, sails, lifting keel with lifter, and built-in torqueedo motor and battery is US$40K. That same money gets you a 5-year old regatta used j70 with beat up sails.

The center cockpit brace is brilliant. It eliminates the need for a traveler, and retracts the electric motor pod when sailing. The boat's OD class also allows RaceGeek D10s! There is a custom mast mount for the boat.

 

[BobbyFunn]

Check out the manuals for setting up and sailing any RS. Great info, like they hired the guy who draws up lego instructions. Got a couple good pointers from them on running rigging setup. I then think to myself that I should buy RS parts and install on my 170. But then an imaginary Jackdaw backhands me and says to get better at sailing, then buy an RS.

As a 170 owner im still hesitant to trade a luran hull for an ABS hull.

 

[BobbyFunn]

So was more curious about the hunter buy out and found that marlow-hunter is a subsidiary of marlow aquisition and that llc is no longer active. The original name on marlow aqusition was for David Marlow. He is actaully pretty close to me at snead island, fl. The investor is very keen on creating global synergies.

I have my doubts that the Alachua, Fl facility is anything but abandoned. Google map the location and there are more cars in the nearby CVS pharmacy than manufacturing facility. The elementary and highschool nearby are packed as well as the publix grocery store. Looks like parts of the facility are being leased to small light industrial concerns

Too bad. Were talking about people having bills to pay and a craft to be proud of.

If there is another facility you can be sure they need high speed connections for intermodal supply lines. There is either no business or a future of "Made in America with Foreign parts". If its in FL, Jacksonville?

The local assembly facility footprint can be smaller if the parts and coponants are built in other facilities.

 

[Scott B]

Marlow Yachts is still at the power boat shows.

Boat Shows

 

[Barnacle Bill]

The RS21 is WAY more user friendly than a J70, and costs was less. Beginners can sail it. Putter around. Get good, and it planes. Boat, sails, lifting keel with lifter, and built-in torqueedo motor and battery is US$40K. That same money gets you a 5-year old regatta used j70 with beat up sails.

The center cockpit brace is brilliant. It eliminates the need for a traveler, and retracts the electric motor pod when sailing. The boat's OD class also allows RaceGeek D10s! There is a custom mast mount for the boat.

View attachment 171740

One thing about the J/70 is a strong one design class which is important if you like to race one design. Same with a Hobie Cat. There's sometimes more to racing than just the boat itself. Haven't sailed the RS, so no comment on it there. It looks fun, but also looks a lot different than a J/70.

 

[Jackdaw]

One thing about the J/70 is a strong one design class which is important if you like to race one design. Same with a Hobie Cat. There's sometimes more to racing than just the boat itself. Haven't sailed the RS, so no comment on it there. It looks fun, but also looks a lot different than a J/70.

Bill,

For sure there is no way that the RS can compete with the j70 from a OD perspective, particularly in the USA. So they've focused on a new trend emerging in yacht clubs; club ownership of fleets. Sarasota YC just bought 7 of them, and my friends at Lakewood YC in Houston just bought 12 for that purpose. It's an interesting idea; keep members (and new members) sailing by taking the ownership out of the equation. Pay your dues, then jump in and go. You only have to look at the success of the 'My Boat Club' here in the Twin Cities to see how well that works. The RS21, with a high fun-factor and yet a lower barrier to entry then the j70 on both the cost and skill front makes it an attractive play.

 

[Hunter216]

Bill,

For sure there is no way that the RS can compete with the j70 from a OD perspective, particularly in the USA. So they've focused on a new trend emerging in yacht clubs; club ownership of fleets. Sarasota YC just bought 7 of them, and my friends at Lakewood YC in Houston just bought 12 for that purpose. It's an interesting idea; keep members (and new members) sailing by taking the ownership out of the equation. Pay your dues, then jump in and go. You only have to look at the success of the 'My Boat Club' here in the Twin Cities to see how well that works. The RS21, with a high fun-factor and yet a lower barrier to entry then the j70 on both the cost and skill front makes it an attractive play.

Interesting approach to boat ownership. I would assume the club would get a discount for multi-unit purchase and a bulk rate on insurance so the cost per unit would be lower than any individual would get. A shared "spares" kit would also keep maintenance costs down and when it's time to replace the "fleet" sell the used ones and re-invest. I found this on the RS website so at ~ $50K that's a pretty big bite for the average person. If getting to use one was "included" in the club fees and compete in a local OD on a regular basis sounds pretty good.

 

[Jackdaw]

Interesting approach to boat ownership. I would assume the club would get a discount for multi-unit purchase and a bulk rate on insurance so the cost per unit would be lower than any individual would get. A shared "spares" kit would also keep maintenance costs down and when it's time to replace the "fleet" sell the used ones and re-invest. I found this on the RS website so at ~ $50K that's a pretty big bite for the average person. If getting to use one was "included" in the club fees and compete in a local OD on a regular basis sounds pretty good.

Right... but their business models are always predicated on the notion that nobody sails their boat 100% of the time. So the sailing time is split up, and you reserve use based on the model that works best for the club in question. Most allow a certain number of races to be reserved in advance, plus any unaccounted time on short notice. Often friend-members pool together as teams and race full series as syndicates.

Re the $50k, thats pretty much the average price of a new Ford F150. you simply keep the old truck when paid off and buy the boat. That helps keep it perspective.

 

[Hunter216]

Right... but their business models are always predicated on the notion that nobody sails their boat 100% of the time. So the sailing time is split up, and you reserve use based on the model that works best for the club in question. Most allow a certain number of races to be reserved in advance, plus any unaccounted time on short notice. Often friend-members pool together as teams and race full series as syndicates.

Re the $50k, thats pretty much the average price of a new Ford F150. If a family has two cars, you simply keep the old truck when paid off and buy the boat. That helps keep it perspective.

I'm not sure I'm understanding the business model. Is RS leasing the boats or does the club buy them outright?

I'm being pretty simplistic in my example below, just trying to see the financial logic for the club.

The club in Houston bought 12 so to make the math easy lets say the cost (purchase, insurance, maintenance etc) over the time the club owns the boat is $50K so $600K for the "fleet" and they sell them after 5 years at $35K each or $420K so the cost to the club is $180K.

If a club membership that has the right to use the boat is $2K/yr X 5 yrs = $10K you would need 18 members (granted all membership fees aren't allocated to just the RS21 use, but it makes the math simple.)

I assume that maybe each member of the club agrees to "contribute" to the cause whether they use the RS21 or not so if the club has 100 members the $2K/yr X 5 yrs X 100 = $1 million which would seem like lots of $ to finance the deal.

So do all the members of the club contribute or is it based on a higher membership fee subset of just the "users" of the RS21?

I like the logic or your two car family (some might call it spin )

 

[Jackdaw]

I'm not sure I'm understanding the business model. Is RS leasing the boats or does the club buy them outright?

I'm being pretty simplistic in my example below, just trying to see the financial logic for the club.

The club in Houston bought 12 so to make the math easy lets say the cost (purchase, insurance, maintenance etc) over the time the club owns the boat is $50K so $600K for the "fleet" and they sell them after 5 years at $35K each or $420K so the cost to the club is $180K.

If a club membership that has the right to use the boat is $2K/yr X 5 yrs = $10K you would need 18 members (granted all membership fees aren't allocated to just the RS21 use, but it makes the math simple.)

I assume that maybe each member of the club agrees to "contribute" to the cause whether they use the RS21 or not so if the club has 100 members the $2K/yr X 5 yrs X 100 = $1 million which would seem like lots of $ to finance the deal.

So do all the members of the club contribute or is it based on a higher membership fee subset of just the "users" of the RS21?

I like the logic or your two car family (some might call it spin )

Just the users.

At WYC we pay dues ($500) plus dock fees ($2500 (a steal on Minnetonka)) to keep your own boat in a slip. This does not cover in any way your acquisition cost or maintain and upkeep.. To come up with a workable model; just substituting a User fee for a dock fee and you're already in the game. You'd just need to jigger with it to get it right.

 

[Hunter216]

The user vs dock fee substitution makes sense. I would think it would help keep the club vibrant.

If the juniors can get off their Opti’s and onto a RS21 occasionally it would keep an entire family engaged.