Market research: What would you want?

[Jackdaw]

Hey all, I'm doing some market research. Looking for feedback from cruisers, racers, or racer/cruisers

If you had a weatherproof display mounted on your mast; what data would you want displayed, and when? Assume it has its own sensors (GPS, compass, gyro, etc), and access to what ever data is running around on your boat's network. As an example to feed your imagination, think of something like this device in cruise mode, that is showing boatspeed, heading, and depth (meters) and a bargraph trend of the bottom. Image the info displayed could be changed based on sailing modes, your input, or a change in a sensor reading. Go!

 

[rgranger]

The next thing I want to add to my boat is a designated chart plotter or a mount for a tablet. Right now I use Navonics on my phone. So the things you described (boatspeed, heading, and depth (meters) and a bargraph trend of the bottom ) Are on the list. A mini-chart plotter display on the mast would be nice. It would also keep my cockpit from getting too cluttered if it were on the mast.

 

[Jackdaw]

The next think I want to add to my boat is a designated chart plotter or a mount for a tablet. Right now I use Navonics on my phone. So the things you described (boatspeed, heading, and depth (meters) and a bargraph trend of the bottom. ) Are on the list. I mini-chart plotter display on the mast would be nice. It would also keep my cockpit from getting too cluttered if it were on the mast.

Its a good point. These types of displays are usually designed to AUGMENT data you might be able to see in the cockpit, but place it were it can be see while sailing, with your eyes and head 'outside the boat'. All all ideas a good ideas!

maybe a way to interface with a plotter and give general steer-by guidance?

 

[walt]

Trailerable cruiser here.. I am guessing the mast location is more of a racing application so that more of the crew can see the display and see it all the time.

But.. I will give my feedback anyhow thinking at the moment that I would rather have some display mounted in a different spot. A lot of smaller boat tiller cruisers have a GPS chart plotter / fish finder / depth instrument possibly mounted near the companionway (maybe what rgranger had in mind?) so that you can see it while sailing or motoring. For example this Garmin 4 inch Garmin echoMAP™ CHIRP 43cv | Chartplotter w/ CHIRP Sonar

These come with multiple screen options and I wish they would add one more very simple screen that had only GPS speed and water depth displayed as large as possible with a blank background that maximized how easy it is to see just those two numbers (similar to what is in the picture above). When I wanted the chartplotter or fishfinder, I would simply change the display configuration like I can already do.

For the Garmin above, what I want would simply take a little more software. Ie, I dont really need something to augment the Garmin chart plotter, I just wish it had an extra screen display option that just gave me speed and depth with no extra clutter so easy to read.. This display would be configurable to possibly add heading, water temp, battery voltage etc and the ability to set the size of each displayed parameter.

 

[Davidasailor26]

give general steer-by guidance?

This. My plotter gives a “steer” number saying to turn right or left by X degrees when navigating to a waypoint. I love that and it would be a key piece of info to have in my line of sight. Helps a lot when I can’t see the next channel marker, or even when I want to know if I’m on a layline. I think the plotter does this using some algorithm to get you back on the rhumb line if you’ve drifted off. That’s ok when cruising if you need to stay in a narrow channel, but really, if you’re in a narrow channel you probably don’t need the steer indicator. In most cases, and definitely when racing it would be nicer if it were just purely the delta between course and and bearing to the mark.

Depth is not a big thing for me when I’m racing. Generally I race in areas where the depth isn’t a concern, or that I am familiar enough to know where to avoid. When in cruising mode I’d want it, but when racing I’d probably swap it out for wind shift or something like that.

 

[kloudie1]

Thin Water Cruiser here.. boatspeed, course over ground (if available, heading if not), and depth in feet ..
Lake Pontchartrain is mostly 4 meters deep.. I am still old school and think better in feet.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I’m thinking 4 modes for my typical usage:

1. Race start
- Speed through water
- Time to start
- Time early/late
- Wind direction and speed trend graph(s)

2. Race
- Speed through water
- Heading
- Steer
- Wind direction and speed trend graph(s)

3. Cruising in open area
- Speed over ground
- Course over ground
- Steer
- True Wind speed?

4. Cruising near anchorage or channel
- Speed over ground
- Course over ground
- Depth
- True wind speed?

 

[HMT2]

Boat Speed (in my case SOG because I don’t have a knot meter)
Apparent Wind speed and angle
VMG when navigating to a waypoint

 

[Jackdaw]

All good so far!

I note that most of these are so-called 'repeater' functions...... a repeat of whats in the cockpit, or could be.

How about 'smart functions', alarms depth, wind for sail change or gibe warning, etc?

Future events, like wind data for the next leg after a mark?

Anchoring rode scope length based on wind and depth? Who knows!

 

[RussC]

My thinking runs pretty close to what Walt discussed. a simple screen with no background clutter. programable to display whatever information is most important, based on where and how you're currently sailing. switchable to show a typical chart plotter type display, a blank background with only a large current speed being displayed, or anything in-between. I'd mostly use a display showing only current speed over ground, heading, and current wind speeds. oh ya... and it can't cost over $29.95! call me when it's ready

 

[DArcy]

VMG!!!

Also a way to program polar numbers for the boat and display the delta from polar to actual based on wind speed and direction. Maybe a bar graph showing how far above or below predicted value you are.

Depth is important. I will often push the limits heading to shore to get the most out of a favorable tack.

The basics: True wind angle, Apparent wind angle, SOG, COG, speed through water to 2 decimal places, time to start switching to elapsed time with the ability to hit restart within 5 minutes, heading

 

[Hayden Watson]

In my part of the world, most boats have dodgers (yes, even the racers) and the mast mounted instruments cannot be seen from most locations in the cockpit so it would be a complete waste of money.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Jack, Davidsailor had good ideas about the different information needed at different times, which I'm sure you appreciate. For example, on my trip from SF to here in BC in 2016, I noted in my log: "I found that the settings for each individual screen on our GPS that we had used for many years for navigating SF Bay and racing weren’t so useful for open ocean and coastal piloting, so I changed the information on some screens to reduce the need for scrolling and made the data fields on each screen more useful, especially for having heading and bearing on each screen as well as in the same place on each screen."

Speed, heading, bearing (to next WP) were consistent pieces of info. VMG was helpful in racing and I found it useful in cruising as well to show how much off we were once heading and bearing began to diverge for whatever reason (traffic, hazards, topography). I used to use XTE on our old Loran C but found it less useful on our Garmin GPSMap76Cx, although the "highway" page was good for that, especially since we were doing 5 to 10 hour days on pretty much straight motoring runs coming up the coast, not so useful in buoy races or smaller bodies of water or shorter trips.

Another consideration is how the changes are made and how easy it is to do so. That Garmin 76Cx handheld is very easy to use. I think we've all been exposed to "nice" electronics that were visually superb but impossible to use, i.e., non-intuitive user interfaces that required pulling out the manual every time you used it!!! My friend had an older Garmin 72 that used to drive us nuts and I put off buying Garmin for years until I used a 76Cx in a WM store and found out they'd learned their lesson well.

It being a HH, it, of course, didn't have depth, which is not always necessary either.

 

[Jackdaw]

In my part of the world, most boats have dodgers (yes, even the racers) and the mast mounted instruments cannot be seen from most locations in the cockpit so it would be a complete waste of money.

We have those too on Lake Superior as well, for the same reasons.... but they fold down when racing.

 

[Davidasailor26]

All good so far!

I note that most of these are so-called 'repeater' functions...... a repeat of whats in the cockpit, or could be.

How about 'smart functions', alarms depth, wind for sail change or gibe warning, etc?

Future events, like wind data for the next leg after a mark?

Anchoring rode scope length based on wind and depth? Who knows!

Good question. I guess I was thinking of repeated data because it’s harder to be creative about what kinds of new data I would want. The old adage about people wanting faster horses comes to mind.

Some alarm functions might be nice. Even though I don’t prioritize depth, a big flashing number might be good if depth were to drop below a preset limit. Same if wind direction were approaching by-the-lee.

Your “future events” sound cool, but I probably wouldn’t want them taking up valuable real estate on the mast mounted display. Wind direction on the next leg and anchor scope are good to know, but for me they’re more of a check-once-and-react type thing than a constant data need.

Darcy’s suggestion for VMG and polar comparison is one I like. I don’t know if I’d put it above my other race data fields, but it would be close.

To Hayden’s point - I have a dodger and can see the lower section of the mast from anywhere in the cockpit. Though there might be other places closer to the companionway that would be as visible and easier to see a smaller font.

 

[Jackdaw]

Jack, Davidsailor had good ideas about the different information needed at different times, which I'm sure you appreciate. For example, on my trip from SF to here in BC in 2016, I noted in my log: "I found that the settings for each individual screen on our GPS that we had used for many years for navigating SF Bay and racing weren’t so useful for open ocean and coastal piloting, so I changed the information on some screens to reduce the need for scrolling and made the data fields on each screen more useful, especially for having heading and bearing on each screen as well as in the same place on each screen."

Speed, heading, bearing (to next WP) were consistent pieces of info. VMG was helpful in racing and I found it useful in cruising as well to show how much off we were once heading and bearing began to diverge for whatever reason (traffic, hazards, topography). I used to use XTE on our old Loran C but found it less useful on our Garmin GPSMap76Cx, although the "highway" page was good for that, especially since we were doing 5 to 10 hour days on pretty much straight motoring runs coming up the coast, not so useful in buoy races or smaller bodies of water or shorter trips.

Another consideration is how the changes are made and how easy it is to do so. That Garmin 76Cx handheld is very easy to use. I think we've all been exposed to "nice" electronics that were visually superb but impossible to use, i.e., non-intuitive user interfaces that required pulling out the manual every time you used it!!! My friend had an older Garmin 72 that used to drive us nuts and I put off buying Garmin for years until I used a 76Cx in a WM store and found out they'd learned their lesson well.

It being a HH, it, of course, didn't have depth, which is not always necessary either.

Indeed your comments and David's are terrific. And yes a lot of that has been thought of in one form or another, but I'm also looking for clarity and validation. All of this is great.

 

[Jackdaw]

Good question. I guess I was thinking of repeated data because it’s harder to be creative about what kinds of new data I would want. The old adage about people wanting faster horses comes to mind.

Some alarm functions might be nice. Even though I don’t prioritize depth, a big flashing number might be good if depth were to drop below a preset limit. Same if wind direction were approaching by-the-lee.

Your “future events” sound cool, but I probably wouldn’t want them taking up valuable real estate on the mast mounted display. Wind direction on the next leg and anchor scope are good to know, but for me they’re more of a check-once-and-react type thing than a constant data need.

Darcy’s suggestion for VMG and polar comparison is one I like. I don’t know if I’d put it above my other race data fields, but it would be close.

To Hayden’s point - I have a dodger and can see the lower section of the mast from anywhere in the cockpit. Though there might be other places closer to the companionway that would be as visible and easier to see a smaller font.

Think like this... the screen 'modes' can be smart, and change based on cruise/anchoring/racing... and racing can have more modes like start, upwind, approach, downwind, etc. Changing automatically.


Oh how about this for a 'smart' function.. a background timer that starts each time you tack... and then briefly display how long it too you to get back to your pre-tack speed. ;^)

 

[kappykaplan]

a background timer that starts each time you tack... and then briefly display how long it too you to get back to your pre-tack speed.

Me like!!!

 

[Jackdaw]

Me like!!!

right?!?!?!? ;^)

 

[Jackdaw]

How about Auto Polar Generation?