Mariner Rudder

[Time2go]

Hi Friends,
I'm in the process of setting up my recently purchased
Mariner 2+2 and have a question about the swing up rudder
The top half has two Pintles, between these is a grove
that lines up with a grove on the bottom half of the rudder.
I believe that this was for a down haul to swing the rudder down
while sailing. Above the top Pintle as seen in pic #2 the grove
dives into a tunnel that exits above where the tiller would be.
Seems to be a fairly simple set up except for the fact
I can't figure out how the bottom of the cable
attaches at the end of the grove in the lower half of the rudder.
See Pic #3 The grove dives into the wood for about an inch
and unless there is some fixture that is painted over, just how is the
cable anchored? There is an odd wood screw that seems to do nothing
where this anchoring device should be.
Is this some kind of FrankenRudder set up by the previous owner?
All ideas are welcome
Thanx to all in advance
Neil

 

[Erieau]

Wow, yeah, that seems frankenrudder alright. My old Mariner didn't have downhaul/uphaul/etc, I just leaned back from time to time and pushed the blade back down into the water.

 

[SchwarckT]

That's the same set up my mariner came with. The wire attached to the screw that you found in the rudder blade. It never worked well, so I replaced it with a shear pin.

 

[tricyclerob]

Neil
I believe in the original design, the rudder had only a downhaul. The theory being the pivot bolt is set loose enough the wood rudder would float to the surface when the downhaul is released.
I think some of the pivot bolts had a short arm welded to the nut to make the tension easily adjustable without needing a wrench.
The original downhaul had a steel cable spliced to a rope line. that ran through a pulley let into the headstock.

The only issue with this set-up, at least to me was there was no provision for any bushing between the rudder and the rudder plates, resulting in wear on the rudder finish and/or the wood itself.
If bushings are added the rudder becomes snug, and doesn't float up as orig. designed.
The other issue was with the downhaul cleated, if there was a rudder strike, the line couldn't release.

I re-arranged and re-routed the downhaul to eliminate the steel cable, but more important, added a cleat that "breaks away" if the rudder strikes something. The tension on the cleat can be adjusted.

The addition of the uphaul is much simpler. A cleat, pulley and a line. I would attach the line a little further down the rudder than in some of the photos to provide additional leverage when raising.

A large poly bushing between the rudder blade and the rudder cheeks makes everything move a little smoother and protects the finish on the rudder. I just drilled a hole through the rudder and attached a line

Although I went completely overboard in redoing my rudder the photos might be helpful.

Although I visit "O'DayOwners" on a regular basis, as you have a Mariner, you may want to consider joining the "Mariner Class Association", it's cheap, $15 a year I think and there's a TON of information on Mariners. And a great bunch of really helpful people to boot.


rob j

 

[jeadstx]

That is the standard rudder for a centerboard model Mariner (Same rudder as a centerboard Rhodes 19). The cable loop goes into the hole in the rudder blade and a screw passes from the side thru the loop to hold it in place. I was just going over my rudder and I'm replacing the clam cleat for the DH on the tiller with an auto release cleat from Duckworks http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/cleats/sd002570/index.htm This will allow the blade to pop up easily if I hit something. I put a clam cleat with fairled on the back side of the head near the top for an UH line. UH line goes to a small hole in the blade. Personally I prefer being able to adjust the tension on the aluminum plates to adjust tension on the blade.

One slight modification I have done to my rudder due to the coastal waters I sail in during the Texas 200 is to change the amount that the blade can come up out of the water. The standard height the blade comes up is a little less than 90 degrees. I needed the blade to be out of the water as much as possible when beached. Pushing off a beach a few years ago I had the rudder blade on my Day Sailer (similar rudder configuration to the Mariner) get jammed in the mud and crack the rudder head. With the blade out of the water (or mud), I don't risk a repeat of the problem.

I also agree that it would be good to join the Mariner Class Association http://www.usmariner.org/ There is a wealth of info on the forum.

John

 

[tricyclerob]

John,
I like the idea of being able to raise the rudder further. When raised fully, mine is still about 1/2 in the water if I recall correctly. Considering all the mods I made to mine I'm not sure how I missed thinking of that. Duh... Maybe the forest and the trees syndrome.

Did you increase the cutout in the rudder itself, or the stop in the block between the plates. Any photos available?
I just happen to have my rudder out for revarnishing.
Thanks,
robj

 

[jeadstx]

I'll have to get some pictures of it to explain. Basically I cut a small section of the wood (between the plates) to allow more blade travel. I have not placed it on the boat yet to see if I have enough travel. I may notch the stop on the blade more if I need it to come up more. I'll have a chance to finish it this weekend and get back to you (with pictures).

John

 

[tricyclerob]

John,
Having given your idea some thought, and as I had my rudder out for a fresh coat of varnish, I decided to take the plunge [no pun intended] and modify it so the rudder would come up out of the water to a slightly greater than 90 deg. angle.

The other reason was in looking at the rudder cheeks, I noticed some electrolysis where the stainless screws pass through the aluminum cheeks.
When I originally re-did the rudder 2 years ago, the stainless screws literally disinigrated when I attempted to remove them. The boat had sat for 8 years before me, so who knows how long they were in there. They still looked like screws, but turned to dust when I put a screwdriver to them.

I thought that using blue locktight under the heads on the countersunk portion, and on the threads of the machine screws would help isolate the screws from the aluminum, but not so much. This time I'm going to use "Ultra Tef-Gel",
a salve like product specifically for this purpose. So anyway, seemed like a good time to disassemble things.

The first photo is the stock configuration which stops the rudder from being raised further.
The second is where the board needs to go to raise it slightly higher than horizontal.
The third shows the mark for the amount to be removed.
And the fourth is the final cut.

On the fourth photo you can see where a very slight gap was left between the board and the block at the outermost edge. One would think that's what should be the "stop", but as that's just a very small section of end grain it seemed like that would easily split off.

I left a very slight gap there and made the actual contact point inside of that on the broader portion of the block where it's much less likely to split. [sorry about the inverted photos. one note says "contact" and the other says "slight space"]

I think a repaint of the cheek blocks is in order as well. John, thanks for motovating me. I was going to let the paint and electrolyses go for another year and just varnish the rudder. This probably saved me extra work in the long run. A stitch in time and all that...

robj

 

[jeadstx]

Rob,

Attached (using one of your photos) is a picture showing my approximate cut to allow the blade to raise higher. I see no real structural benefit to that little peice missing. I did want to keep the screw there. If I need the blade to go higher I can lengthen the notch in the rudder blade. Will see how my current cut works first tho. Also attached is my Day Sailer rudder head.

There is another reason your old screws may have disinegrated. I disassembled my Rhodes 19 rudder (same as Mariner) a couple years ago and found they had used aluminum screws instead of SS. I guess aluminum screws are OK if you don't take the rudder head apart.

John

 

[tricyclerob]

John,
I think you're right, the whole corner could be removed, but I had screws in that area that hold the cheeks to the block. I think with the cut you made the rudder should raise a considerable amount, I'm assuming like your second photo. Looks like it should work fine.
The original screws in mine were stainless, which I think is the problem as they're too dissimilar to the aluminum on the galvanic table. Aluminum screws actually might work better if the right type of aluminum. I'm going to give it a second go using the Tuf-Gel and see how that works. Reports are it works pretty well when using stainless bolts through aluminum.

Again, thanks for the "nudge".
robj

 

[jeadstx]

I'll have to check how my SS screws are doing on my Day Sailer rudder head. They have been in salt water twice for 5 days each time while sailing the Texas 200 in 2012 & 2013. They have also had fresh water expossure.

The aluminum screws would have been re-used in my Rhodes 19 rudder head except part of the head broke on all of them during removal leaving no slot for the screw driver.

John