I recently acquired a keel sailboat about 19'. It has a open cuddy, two shelves inside, a forepeak locker, and a storage locker on the starboard cockpit seat. The sail has a emblem consisting of circle with the letter M inside. The Keel was cut off about 6" below the hull. How is the keel removed from the hull, are replacement keels available, is it possible to replace the keel with a centerboard or keel/centerboard as Northwest Fla. is shoal sailing. em davidr@safeworks.com thanks for any help, its a stout boat..
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Vic
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David Robison
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Vic
does the fibre glass look hand done
or is it sort of factory smooth? is there a 2-3 inch rusty ring about the center line? the cast iron keel is bolted through the oak frame in the old boats with some pretty large bolts which were not stainless steel and do erode. You can almost make out where the flush bolt heads are by looking at the keel flange once you chip off some of the surrounded flaky cast iron on the old keels. I would say you are at major project level right about now. But then again the boat may still sail ok as is ... just not competively.
or is it sort of factory smooth? is there a 2-3 inch rusty ring about the center line? the cast iron keel is bolted through the oak frame in the old boats with some pretty large bolts which were not stainless steel and do erode. You can almost make out where the flush bolt heads are by looking at the keel flange once you chip off some of the surrounded flaky cast iron on the old keels. I would say you are at major project level right about now. But then again the boat may still sail ok as is ... just not competively.
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Pat Corbett
could be shoal draft c/b
Is what's left of the "keel" hollow? Is there a "trunk" in the cockpit? You may have a mariner with a centerboard/keel configuration. Contact Stuart marine, in Maine, or search this website. Good Luck
Is what's left of the "keel" hollow? Is there a "trunk" in the cockpit? You may have a mariner with a centerboard/keel configuration. Contact Stuart marine, in Maine, or search this website. Good Luck
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Rob
Vic - Are you high??
If the keel has been cut off an originally equipped hull, it is never going to sail o.k. again - competitively or otherwise. that hull will be unstable to the point of dangerous and it could never sail to windward. It would have virtually no lateral resistance! David, go drive/call around some local boat yards and find another boat to compare yours with. It is an O'day Mariner and the serial number and year built will either be imprinted into the gelcoat on the transom or on a small builders plaque on the athwartships cockpit coaming on the aft end of the cockpit. New keel castings are available from Stuart marine in Rockland, Maine and they can send you sales info. As far as installing a centerboard in place of a keel, you really need to sit down and ask yourself just how bad you want that centerboard! You are looking at more work than that boat is probably worth - to most people, at least. This would involve cutting a long slot through the bottom of the boat and fabricating and glassing in a centerboard trunk as well as coming up with a centerboard itself. Look at other boats available in your area and I think you will find some in at least sailable condition for $500 - $2000. The more expensive ones should include trailers, outboards and other equipment. It is going to cost you close to that, if not more, to rebuild the one you have and somehow I get the feeling it doesn't have alot of the accessories you may need and/or want later on. These boats are great - don't get me wrong, but there comes a point where it just doesn't make good sense to get into fixing them. How much fiberglass experience do you have and how well do you enjoy rolling in the stuff for days at a time? Is that your idea of fun or would you rather be sailing? These are just some of the issues I would sit down with. Educate yourself all you can before you spend any money. Check out the Mariner web sight: http://www.usmariner.org/ Good luck! P.s. Question authority - mine as well as Vics. I don’t believe any one is trying to mislead, but it is just this kind of attitude that begins so many disaster storys. The water does not forgive ignorance or inexperience. Be prepared as the boyscouts say. Load for bear I say! Happy days!
If the keel has been cut off an originally equipped hull, it is never going to sail o.k. again - competitively or otherwise. that hull will be unstable to the point of dangerous and it could never sail to windward. It would have virtually no lateral resistance! David, go drive/call around some local boat yards and find another boat to compare yours with. It is an O'day Mariner and the serial number and year built will either be imprinted into the gelcoat on the transom or on a small builders plaque on the athwartships cockpit coaming on the aft end of the cockpit. New keel castings are available from Stuart marine in Rockland, Maine and they can send you sales info. As far as installing a centerboard in place of a keel, you really need to sit down and ask yourself just how bad you want that centerboard! You are looking at more work than that boat is probably worth - to most people, at least. This would involve cutting a long slot through the bottom of the boat and fabricating and glassing in a centerboard trunk as well as coming up with a centerboard itself. Look at other boats available in your area and I think you will find some in at least sailable condition for $500 - $2000. The more expensive ones should include trailers, outboards and other equipment. It is going to cost you close to that, if not more, to rebuild the one you have and somehow I get the feeling it doesn't have alot of the accessories you may need and/or want later on. These boats are great - don't get me wrong, but there comes a point where it just doesn't make good sense to get into fixing them. How much fiberglass experience do you have and how well do you enjoy rolling in the stuff for days at a time? Is that your idea of fun or would you rather be sailing? These are just some of the issues I would sit down with. Educate yourself all you can before you spend any money. Check out the Mariner web sight: http://www.usmariner.org/ Good luck! P.s. Question authority - mine as well as Vics. I don’t believe any one is trying to mislead, but it is just this kind of attitude that begins so many disaster storys. The water does not forgive ignorance or inexperience. Be prepared as the boyscouts say. Load for bear I say! Happy days!
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Vic
Rob ... OK is what will sail in 3 ft of water
On the 19 there is still a good chunk of cast iron in a chopped keel ... the real problem is that the rudder is probably too deep ... but I bet that has been cut off a bit as well. Won't point that well ... and may be a little overpowered over 12 kt. wind ... but I've sailed in worse. Can't be much worse than a '76 Buccaneer! Hey, up here in Newport there is a fake schooner that was a steel sardine fishing boat that they added masts to ... sails like a pig ... some times the only way to tack is to gibe. I fiberglassed my Rhodes 19 keel over 7 years ago {West} basically to keep it from rusting away. Any 30-year-old 19 keel is probably 25% lighter than original anyway. The 19 in question will probably need new oak stringers if we were to put a full keel on it ... and by that time we are into some serious time, effort and money. and it still won't be able to sail in 3 ft. water. Can't expect every boat to be perfect ... the real sailor can sail anything ... at some level.
On the 19 there is still a good chunk of cast iron in a chopped keel ... the real problem is that the rudder is probably too deep ... but I bet that has been cut off a bit as well. Won't point that well ... and may be a little overpowered over 12 kt. wind ... but I've sailed in worse. Can't be much worse than a '76 Buccaneer! Hey, up here in Newport there is a fake schooner that was a steel sardine fishing boat that they added masts to ... sails like a pig ... some times the only way to tack is to gibe. I fiberglassed my Rhodes 19 keel over 7 years ago {West} basically to keep it from rusting away. Any 30-year-old 19 keel is probably 25% lighter than original anyway. The 19 in question will probably need new oak stringers if we were to put a full keel on it ... and by that time we are into some serious time, effort and money. and it still won't be able to sail in 3 ft. water. Can't expect every boat to be perfect ... the real sailor can sail anything ... at some level.
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Josh
Leeboards?
I guess the question is if you want the boat in original condition, or if you are just looking to get it out on the water and working. Don't know much about the 19's, but if the keel was removed and glassed over or what have you, wouldn't slapping some leeboards on it be the best and most simple fix? I mean it won't be pretty, but a boat missing its keel isn't going to be anyways. If you are just looking for something to putter around on that you paid a few hundred bucks for, then this would be the cheapest, and easiest fix... Do a search for leeboards on yahoo, the first few sites are about building leeboard setups. Josh
I guess the question is if you want the boat in original condition, or if you are just looking to get it out on the water and working. Don't know much about the 19's, but if the keel was removed and glassed over or what have you, wouldn't slapping some leeboards on it be the best and most simple fix? I mean it won't be pretty, but a boat missing its keel isn't going to be anyways. If you are just looking for something to putter around on that you paid a few hundred bucks for, then this would be the cheapest, and easiest fix... Do a search for leeboards on yahoo, the first few sites are about building leeboard setups. Josh
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Chris
Mariner 411
David, I'm currently in the process of restoring a 63 mariner, so I can give you some insight on what I am experiencing. I acquired the Mariner 19 very cheaply knowing that it would be a lot of work. Currently, I have the keel off and am glassing and fairing it. It was held on by 4 pairs of bolts thru the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 6th stringers. The stringers were orignal and very rotted. I was able to get replacement bolts (which were very corroded) and stringers from Stuart Marine, in Maine, for about $450. They also sell replacement keels ($1700) and I know of a used one available in California for ~$400. Stuart sells everything that you need for a Mariner/Rhodes19 from top to bottom. To remove the keel I built a wooden case around the it, supported it by a 2 ton car jack, had someone bang the bolts loose with a hammer, and lowered the keel from underneath the boat. It only took about 30 minutes to actually get the keel off. Originally (I believe from my photocopied documentation) the boats were shipped with the keel off and the customer/boatyard had to put them on. Now I am installing the new stringers. Next will be to drill holes for the bolts and replace the keel. Getting a good seal between the hull and keel seems to be the toughest part of the job, I'm planning on using 5200 caulk. I've also replaced the v-berth, enclosed the cabin, etc.. so basically it can turn into a really big project if you want it to. I'm still pretty new to sailing and not the greatest handy man in the world, but CAN be done if you want. Here's the info for Stuart Marine: David Whittier stuart@midcoast.com (207) 594-5515 PO Box 469 38 Gordon Dr Rockland, ME 02481 Tell 'em Chris from Boston sent you. Best of Luck, Chris Class #91
David, I'm currently in the process of restoring a 63 mariner, so I can give you some insight on what I am experiencing. I acquired the Mariner 19 very cheaply knowing that it would be a lot of work. Currently, I have the keel off and am glassing and fairing it. It was held on by 4 pairs of bolts thru the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 6th stringers. The stringers were orignal and very rotted. I was able to get replacement bolts (which were very corroded) and stringers from Stuart Marine, in Maine, for about $450. They also sell replacement keels ($1700) and I know of a used one available in California for ~$400. Stuart sells everything that you need for a Mariner/Rhodes19 from top to bottom. To remove the keel I built a wooden case around the it, supported it by a 2 ton car jack, had someone bang the bolts loose with a hammer, and lowered the keel from underneath the boat. It only took about 30 minutes to actually get the keel off. Originally (I believe from my photocopied documentation) the boats were shipped with the keel off and the customer/boatyard had to put them on. Now I am installing the new stringers. Next will be to drill holes for the bolts and replace the keel. Getting a good seal between the hull and keel seems to be the toughest part of the job, I'm planning on using 5200 caulk. I've also replaced the v-berth, enclosed the cabin, etc.. so basically it can turn into a really big project if you want it to. I'm still pretty new to sailing and not the greatest handy man in the world, but CAN be done if you want. Here's the info for Stuart Marine: David Whittier stuart@midcoast.com (207) 594-5515 PO Box 469 38 Gordon Dr Rockland, ME 02481 Tell 'em Chris from Boston sent you. Best of Luck, Chris Class #91
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Vic
Chris ... I put a thin fiberglass layer
on the rudder as well ... as it was showing some problems and I just didn't trust the wood alone. That was child's play in comparison to the project you are working on ... The boat is a kick to sail ... one of my favorites. and after you are finished you'll have another 20 years to enjoy your work. The stuart 19s are used as rentals at the Sail Newport operation and are more fun to sail than their J22s. I filled some of the crazing in the hull, a quick sand, and paint and five years later it still is looking good from 7 feet away.
on the rudder as well ... as it was showing some problems and I just didn't trust the wood alone. That was child's play in comparison to the project you are working on ... The boat is a kick to sail ... one of my favorites. and after you are finished you'll have another 20 years to enjoy your work. The stuart 19s are used as rentals at the Sail Newport operation and are more fun to sail than their J22s. I filled some of the crazing in the hull, a quick sand, and paint and five years later it still is looking good from 7 feet away.
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