Are marine sanitation laws too tough? Too lenient? Or just right? Do you follow the laws... and if you do, do you wish you didn't have to? How would re-write the laws, if you could? Dump your opinions here, and don't forget to vote in this week's Quick Quiz at the bottom of the home page.
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R.W. Landau
Canada tougher?
I know the US laws. I here that the Canadian laws are getting more strict on even grey water. Could one of you Canadians explain, and do cruising boats have to be in compliance? r.w.landau
I know the US laws. I here that the Canadian laws are getting more strict on even grey water. Could one of you Canadians explain, and do cruising boats have to be in compliance? r.w.landau
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Justin - O'day Owners' Web
How to make yourself unpopular in one easy post...
so - flamesuit on I would vote for zero discharge in inshore and freshwater areas unless you are equipped with either a lectrasan type device, or its equivilant in a bioactive treatment unit. I would also turn legislation and enforcement of the issue over to the states within a general federal guideline. In my opinion, the federal reg should be something to the effect of no untreated waste inside a certain radius (3 miles seems to work ok). The states could then regulate grey water discharge and treated discharge inside that limit. I would vote for enforcement in the form of random dye testing (eg: without time to reconfigure valves a dye tablet is flushed down your head and the water around the boat check for the dye) with massive penalties for lack of compliance. (In a perfect world I would vote for forfeiture in certain circumstances). I think that we psy enough attention to our sails and rigs and engine and electronics and bars to spare a little to our heads to make sure they work. There would be a certification process for treatment type systems that would exempt you from the no discharge law. Since, I'm regulating the heck out of stuff, lets make new boat manufacturers be required to install treatment systems. Of course, if I could write all the legislation I wanted Cigarette boats would be banned and the dock space would be free, and I might even fix the Lake Union liveaboard thing. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
so - flamesuit on I would vote for zero discharge in inshore and freshwater areas unless you are equipped with either a lectrasan type device, or its equivilant in a bioactive treatment unit. I would also turn legislation and enforcement of the issue over to the states within a general federal guideline. In my opinion, the federal reg should be something to the effect of no untreated waste inside a certain radius (3 miles seems to work ok). The states could then regulate grey water discharge and treated discharge inside that limit. I would vote for enforcement in the form of random dye testing (eg: without time to reconfigure valves a dye tablet is flushed down your head and the water around the boat check for the dye) with massive penalties for lack of compliance. (In a perfect world I would vote for forfeiture in certain circumstances). I think that we psy enough attention to our sails and rigs and engine and electronics and bars to spare a little to our heads to make sure they work. There would be a certification process for treatment type systems that would exempt you from the no discharge law. Since, I'm regulating the heck out of stuff, lets make new boat manufacturers be required to install treatment systems. Of course, if I could write all the legislation I wanted Cigarette boats would be banned and the dock space would be free, and I might even fix the Lake Union liveaboard thing. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
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Tom Ehmke
Sieg Heil!! Justin
Just kidding, Justin, but that's just about how I feel when I read about yet another regulation the proposal of which implies that we would all be better off if we would just... (you fill in the blank) I live near a city of approximately 30,000 which has an up-to-date sewage disposal plant. Yet when we have unusually heavy rainfall or there is some other problem at the plant, raw sewage goes into a rather famous local "ditch". How do I know this? I and many others who commute past this "ditch" can smell it. Yet, the federal government and the states in their wacky wisdom tell us who love to boat that we can't pee overboard without having someone suggest that it is ok to confiscate our boats... sheesh!!!
Just kidding, Justin, but that's just about how I feel when I read about yet another regulation the proposal of which implies that we would all be better off if we would just... (you fill in the blank) I live near a city of approximately 30,000 which has an up-to-date sewage disposal plant. Yet when we have unusually heavy rainfall or there is some other problem at the plant, raw sewage goes into a rather famous local "ditch". How do I know this? I and many others who commute past this "ditch" can smell it. Yet, the federal government and the states in their wacky wisdom tell us who love to boat that we can't pee overboard without having someone suggest that it is ok to confiscate our boats... sheesh!!!
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Bob
Yet ANOTHER Government Intrusion Into My Life
E. Greenwich, RI, and may other towns with antiquated wastewater treatment systems, do more harm to the bay than ANY recreational boater ever does! I have to sail from West Bay all the way to Potter's Cove at Prudence if I just want to dangle a toe in the water. The odor from the sewage plant is nauseating and the discharge ensures that the shellfish are inedible. The "Save The Bay" weenies are no prize either. If they had their way we'd be regulated to death! This self-righteous band of pinheads seems to be happy that the "easy marks" (boaters) have been justifiably singled out as the major cause of pollution. Personally, I don't pump out within 3 miles of a shoreline anyway and I value our environment as much or maybe even more than the next guy. But it's about time that the blame fell squarely where it belongs on this issue...on the people that are the BIGGEST intrusion in your life today...THE GOVERNMENT! Yes...the boaters were an easy mark, so we are to blame.
E. Greenwich, RI, and may other towns with antiquated wastewater treatment systems, do more harm to the bay than ANY recreational boater ever does! I have to sail from West Bay all the way to Potter's Cove at Prudence if I just want to dangle a toe in the water. The odor from the sewage plant is nauseating and the discharge ensures that the shellfish are inedible. The "Save The Bay" weenies are no prize either. If they had their way we'd be regulated to death! This self-righteous band of pinheads seems to be happy that the "easy marks" (boaters) have been justifiably singled out as the major cause of pollution. Personally, I don't pump out within 3 miles of a shoreline anyway and I value our environment as much or maybe even more than the next guy. But it's about time that the blame fell squarely where it belongs on this issue...on the people that are the BIGGEST intrusion in your life today...THE GOVERNMENT! Yes...the boaters were an easy mark, so we are to blame.
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Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Please don't call me a Nazi
1. Even in jest, please just don't. My personal neurosis. Thanks. 2. The question wasn't "Are pleasure boaters the problem?". They're not the only, or even the major, source of polution. Most even obey the rules as they are written and would act similarly even if they were not written. However, of my friends, in this area (an admittedly small sample, perhaps) many do not obey the current regs. Many of the liveaboards dump their heads directly overboard. I'm sorry, but its a reality. I don't say all do, or even that most do, but the ones I know do. Take the statement at its limited value. 3. You didn't ask if I would do something about the land based effluent polution. I would. Frankly, I do. I choose not to eat beef or chicken to limit the impact the production of those animals has. With chickens in particular, the effluent is a serious problem. I agree that many plants are outdated, and that even modern one sometimes overflow. Given unlimited power, I would address these first. In the hypo, I wasn't offerred that power. At the same time its time for pleasure boaters to recognize that as a group we have a significant impact on the health of the waters in which we sail. And while many of us choose to be ecofriendly, many of us do not. It is not only the powerboaters who pollute. Plastic, effluent and dunnage are problems, and with increasing the increasing numbers of boaters, it is an increasingly large problem. If we are not going to police ourselves, I would support someone else to police us. Why should the water I want to fish from or swim in be unclean because the boater next to me chooses to leave the through-hulls open? I wish that all people were sufficiently considerate of each other to make legislation unnecessary. In my experience, that just isn't the case. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
1. Even in jest, please just don't. My personal neurosis. Thanks. 2. The question wasn't "Are pleasure boaters the problem?". They're not the only, or even the major, source of polution. Most even obey the rules as they are written and would act similarly even if they were not written. However, of my friends, in this area (an admittedly small sample, perhaps) many do not obey the current regs. Many of the liveaboards dump their heads directly overboard. I'm sorry, but its a reality. I don't say all do, or even that most do, but the ones I know do. Take the statement at its limited value. 3. You didn't ask if I would do something about the land based effluent polution. I would. Frankly, I do. I choose not to eat beef or chicken to limit the impact the production of those animals has. With chickens in particular, the effluent is a serious problem. I agree that many plants are outdated, and that even modern one sometimes overflow. Given unlimited power, I would address these first. In the hypo, I wasn't offerred that power. At the same time its time for pleasure boaters to recognize that as a group we have a significant impact on the health of the waters in which we sail. And while many of us choose to be ecofriendly, many of us do not. It is not only the powerboaters who pollute. Plastic, effluent and dunnage are problems, and with increasing the increasing numbers of boaters, it is an increasingly large problem. If we are not going to police ourselves, I would support someone else to police us. Why should the water I want to fish from or swim in be unclean because the boater next to me chooses to leave the through-hulls open? I wish that all people were sufficiently considerate of each other to make legislation unnecessary. In my experience, that just isn't the case. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
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Tom Ehmke
To Bob of E. Greenwich
Bob, we both responded to Justin's solution to the marine waste problem and I think we both agree that we ( the boaters) are the easiest target for the government to regulate at this time... probably because the government, like some municipalities of which we are aware, is full of so much undisposed of s--- that its field of vision is limited to what it can see ON THE WATER, not what comes in from rivers and ditches from underground waste lines. Now, to change the subject. Do you own a 272LE? I noticed it on the address part of your e-mail and was curious. I have been trying for awhile to form a group of 272 owners and generate an e-mail list so that we can discuss with others the joys, challenges and particular problems of this boat. I have a list of about 6 or 7 addresses, but know that there are a great many others out there. If you are an owner, let me know. At some point, I hope to develop a group with addresses that we can distribute to all 272 owners. Tom Ehmke tooth'n'nail ODay 272
Bob, we both responded to Justin's solution to the marine waste problem and I think we both agree that we ( the boaters) are the easiest target for the government to regulate at this time... probably because the government, like some municipalities of which we are aware, is full of so much undisposed of s--- that its field of vision is limited to what it can see ON THE WATER, not what comes in from rivers and ditches from underground waste lines. Now, to change the subject. Do you own a 272LE? I noticed it on the address part of your e-mail and was curious. I have been trying for awhile to form a group of 272 owners and generate an e-mail list so that we can discuss with others the joys, challenges and particular problems of this boat. I have a list of about 6 or 7 addresses, but know that there are a great many others out there. If you are an owner, let me know. At some point, I hope to develop a group with addresses that we can distribute to all 272 owners. Tom Ehmke tooth'n'nail ODay 272
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Tom Ehmke
Apologies to Justin
Justin, The address "Sieg Heil" was intended as a jest. Name-calling isn't my method of dealing with problems I may not understand. It was intended to strike a parallel regarding regulation taken to the extreme. I must say that after reading the rest of your reply, I'm no less frightened by what could happen if you were given the opportunity to regulate waste disposal. We're on opposite sides of the fence regarding the idea that government knows better how to manage our lives than we do. That having been said, I hope I can count on you for continuing to give out excellent advice about what we DO agree upon-- the joys of sailing. Tom Ehmke
Justin, The address "Sieg Heil" was intended as a jest. Name-calling isn't my method of dealing with problems I may not understand. It was intended to strike a parallel regarding regulation taken to the extreme. I must say that after reading the rest of your reply, I'm no less frightened by what could happen if you were given the opportunity to regulate waste disposal. We're on opposite sides of the fence regarding the idea that government knows better how to manage our lives than we do. That having been said, I hope I can count on you for continuing to give out excellent advice about what we DO agree upon-- the joys of sailing. Tom Ehmke
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Bob
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Tom Ehmke
272 web ring-Bob
Bob, I have no idea what a web ring is, but I'm willing to learn... I do know how to set up an e-mail group and have a couple of those in my address book. Hopefully, they are the same thing. As I said before, I'm willing to set this up, but I'll need some tips and advice from others who are more familiar with computer stuff than I am. What I have right now is a mish mash of hand-written e-mail addresses, contacts in my computer address book and stuff I can find on the Oday website. If you or anyone out there who reads this can help us with some information, we can start another thread here or it could be e-mailed directly to me at tomclaud@wcnet.org. Thanks for your interest.
Bob, I have no idea what a web ring is, but I'm willing to learn... I do know how to set up an e-mail group and have a couple of those in my address book. Hopefully, they are the same thing. As I said before, I'm willing to set this up, but I'll need some tips and advice from others who are more familiar with computer stuff than I am. What I have right now is a mish mash of hand-written e-mail addresses, contacts in my computer address book and stuff I can find on the Oday website. If you or anyone out there who reads this can help us with some information, we can start another thread here or it could be e-mailed directly to me at tomclaud@wcnet.org. Thanks for your interest.
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ODO Editorial
Final results
Final results for the Quick Quiz ending 11/6/2000: Marine sanitation laws are... 41% Perfect as they are 28% Too lenient 23% Too tough
Final results for the Quick Quiz ending 11/6/2000: Marine sanitation laws are... 41% Perfect as they are 28% Too lenient 23% Too tough
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