Marine head conversion H-26

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Apr 26, 2016

First...Batteries are heavy, and you have a small boaat. Do you know how much their combined weight on one side of the boat will impact the boat's trim?

In the 20+ years I've been in marine sanitation, I've never heard of Five Oceans marine toilets...so I googled them. I did learn from their website that they're not mfrs, but distributors of equipment made in Europe and South America and elsewhere. They have only one warehouse, in FL... the only source for their products, and no mention of any tech support. That combined with prices that are even lower than the lowest quality European toilets (TMZ) doesn't encourage me to recommend 'em. I've put out a call my contacts in the industry to ask what they know about them, who actually makes the products they sell...I should have replies in a day or two.

I have no idea you mean by this: I don't have the PVC going through the rear stringer. Should I bore a hole and glass one in or exit the floor pan outside the rear removable bulkhead and go over it? Where are you planning to put a tank??? Surely you aren't planning to use hard PVC pipe to plumb the system...that's only recommended for long straight runs and also requires using enough hose to connect to the toilet and tank to protect from shock.

IMO The best solution for most boats up to about 28' on no-discharge waters is a self-contained system--an "MSD" version portapotty ("MSD" in the model name/number means it's intended to be permanently installed and has fittings to connect a vent line and pumpout line...but you can disconnect the hoses and carry the tank off the boat if you need to). A 5-6 gal model holds 50-60 flushes...you'd need at least a 30 gallon tank to hold that many from any manual or electric marine toilet. No plumbing except a vent and pumpout line so no cutting through stringers, no moving parts that need lubrication and maintenance, and you're not sacrificing storage space that's already in short supply on a 26' boat to a tank and hoses. Iow, all the advantages of a marine toilet and tank with none of disadvantages. Total cost including hose: about $250.

Think about it, and check out the Thetford 55P MSD and the SeaLand Sanipottie 965MSD Both are available from the online store on this site.

Kermit · Apr 26, 2016

One word... Trust Peggie.

kappykaplan · Apr 26, 2016

Kermie, that was two words . . .

Fred · Apr 27, 2016

nosnebjim said:
I currently have a 6 gallon porta potty and that seems to fill up over a long weekend. I am heading to the north Channel this year and will be out of court for at least 10 days so I need additional capacity.

We have been cruising in the NC for the last 3 summers. We find ourselves in port every 3 to 4 days for provisioning (ice, groceries, etc) and pump out each time. We have a 5 gallon MSD porta-pottie. Capacity is indeed somewhat limited. Last year I carried a second (2.5 gallon) porta-pottie in the v-berth locker as a backup. We used it once in three weeks.

Crazy Dave Condon · Apr 27, 2016

From Knowledge and Experience, I trust Peggy on the info. about the mfg. and would not suggest going with an unknown.
As for the Hunter 26 if you are going with a marine head, then you will need to go with the pump style and you have the information but follow any instructions for the 260. Same layout and set up. The holding tank use to be a 20 gallon on the port side behind the rear berth wall. You will need to build a platform for that which will require fiberglassing to the hulland please do not use any screws into the hull or the back side of the ballast tank. I would gel coat the top of the platform or krylon paint of sorts to ensure water or so on not to let the wood get wet.

The other thing about this is to consider the pump out stations are few on lakes. If you go over into Canadian waters, a porta poti is not allowed unless it is the one with a pump out. Where ever you are at, overboard discharge laws must be considered and so on. Also treat the head, lines and tank which many do not or eventually the smells will not only run you out but considered being bonked on the side of the head by your better half.

Kermie, I agree with Kappy you said two words. Kappy maybe it is time for the gigging fork

twalker H260 · Apr 27, 2016

If you go with a porta-potty Msd I would run the hose up on the cabin liner of the rear berth rather than down and under the rear berth. Shorter hose run and after pump out the hose should drain back to the porta-potty rather than collecting and sitting in the hose. You also avoid having to cut any holes in the stringers etc. Much easier to run the lines as well.

This is the way I'll redo our 260 when the time comes. It should also make it easier and cleaner if you want to swap out tanks on the Msd - you could carry a spare - but you wouldn't likely be legal in Ontario with it.

Our 5 gal Msd does two adults and two kids 3-4 days between pump outs.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Apr 27, 2016

nosnebjim said:
If I get this right you are saying that for every time I flush it adds 5 gallons of water? If 6 gallon a porta-potty equals 30 gallon holding tank.

Your math skills need little work

. A 5-6 gallon portapotty--both MSD and portable--can hold 50-60 flushes because it only uses about a pint of flush water--a quarter of the amount needed by a marine toilet....just enough to rinse the bowl.

Otoh, the average flush water volume needed by any manual or electric toilet is about 2 liters (.6 gal)...and that's only if you're conservative in your flush water use. 50-60 flushes x .6 gallons = at least 30-36 gallons.

As for how long it should take to fill up any tank: The average adult uses the toilet 5x/24 hrs...children a bit more often. So each adult continuously onboard using any manual or electric toilet will put average of 3 gal/day into a holding tank. How long it takes to fill up your tank depends on how many gallons your tank holds. A portapotty that holds 50 flushes should last two people about 5 days. Subtract a day for each additional person. This doesn't take swimming or use of the lee rail into account.

Kermit · Apr 27, 2016

kappykaplan said:
Kermie, that was two words . . .

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand math and those who don't.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Apr 27, 2016

A 29 gal tank will last two people about 5 days....about the same as 5-6 gal portapotty. So you gain nothing but a LOT of added expense by going with either a decent quality manual or electric toilet and tank (I've had replies from my industry contacts...Five Oceans toilets are so cheap and flimsy they even makes a Jabsco look good!) . If you really think you need more holding capacity you COULD install a 10-12 gallon tank and run the the MSD p'potty pumpout line to it with a macerator pump to transfer the contents...that would triple your holding capacity. The only additional plumbing needed would be a vent line on the remote tank.

And btw...the stern is a horrible place for a tank...no way to vent it to prevent odor. Venting out the stern only directs it away from your boat, you'll gas everyone around you every time you flush! The v-berth is the best the best place for it. And I'm still trying to figure out why you think you'd need to run 3" PVC--or 3" hose-- anywhere in any sanitation system!

I've been told that the electric heads are less likely to clog than the manual ones. Is this true?
No. Any toilet will clog if you try to flush anything that you haven't eaten first except quick-dissolve toilet paper and or try to conserve tank space by skimping too much on flush water. Manual toilets offer the option of pulling flush water in, or flushing "dry" (no flush water added to the bowl...only very pricy electric toilets offer that choice.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Apr 27, 2016

Yep...you got it right on the second bounce. ONLY the second tank would be pumped out.

However...You may not always need the additional capacity and there's no reason to have to maintain the second tank if you don't have to use it. So you'd need a y-valve in the pumpout line from the p-potty that lets you choose between only pumping it out or moving it to the second tank. The second tank pumpout line would then be teed into the original pumpout line just below the pumpout fitting.

You'll prob'ly want to get some advice from the local yard or another boat owner who's enough of a "seasoned salt" to show you how to do this. It's not rocket science, but it can be a lot easier to understand how to do it if someone can actually show you how.

Doug J · Apr 27, 2016

I went with the MSD option. There isn't a good way to plumb the hoses for the MSD pottie on a H26 to the aft compartment. I tried to come up with a way to keep the hoses hidden as much as possible.

My 94' H26 does not have conduit from the factory running under the aft berth to the stern compartment. Installing conduit there is very difficult as the space below has foam and access is difficult. I know this because I did run a 3/4" conduit from the aft compartment to the galley and it was a real hard job, even with the smaller conduit. To install a waste hose through there would be next to impossible. For those with a 260, you're really lucky to already have the conduit in place. I wish Hunter would have thought about that with the early H26's.

I ran my waste and vent hoses through the back of the head hanging locker up high through a 3" conduit I installed in the port coaming, which is completely hidden from view in the aft berth. I was also able to run a 3/4" water line for a transom shower through the 3" conduit, and still have room left over if I need to run any wires. This way the hoses are completely hidden. Also, the hoses are inside a 3" conduit that is installed in the coaming, filled with foam, which should help hide any potential odor.

I don't think Peggie would approve of my installation though, due to the pump out and vent fittings being installed on the transom. The only possible issue I can see is maybe the vent could possibly be a problem. If so I have two options.

1) Install a shutoff valve on the vent line if the smell gets to be too much. After all it is a MSD porta pottie, which if used in a portable fashion would not have a vent line installed anyway. I would just need to remember to open the valve during pump out or the 5 gallon tank will collapse from the vacuum.

2) Move the vent to directly over the pottie. I don't particularly like that option, but will go that route if warranted.

If interested I posted some pic's in the mod section
http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/mods.php?task=article&mid=15&aid=100040&mn=26

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Apr 27, 2016

Doug J said:
I don't think Peggie would approve of my installation though, due to the pump out and vent fittings being installed on the transom. The only possible issue I can see is maybe the vent could possibly be a problem. If so I have two options.

1) Install a shutoff valve on the vent line if the smell gets to be too much. After all it is a MSD porta pottie, which if used in a portable fashion would not have a vent line installed anyway. I would just need to remember to open the valve during pump out or the 5 gallon tank will collapse from the vacuum.

2) Move the vent to directly over the pottie. I don't particularly like that option, but will go that route if warranted.

Option 1 will result in a blast of odor in the head every time you open the "trap door" in the bowl.
Go with option 2 and use a product called Odorlos Odorlos in the tank. It's available from WM, but you'll find it in most RV supply stores for a LOT lower price. It's evironmentally friendly...the active ingredient is nitrates, which promote oxygen release from the waste, helping to keep the tank aerobic, which is the key to PREVENTING odor from occurring.

I'd also consider increase the diameter of the vent line to 1". This would require installing a new vent fitting in the tank, but that's actually easy to do, thanks to a li'l gadget called the Uniseal. Install vent thru-hull in the hull just below the toe rail and use a plain ol' open thru-hull, not a "vent" thru-hull.

There's not much to be gained from moving the pumpout fitting so leave it where it is.

Doug J · Apr 27, 2016

Did I get an approval of the pump out fitting?

I think I'll try Odorlos. Thanks Peggy!