This may seem an odd question, but I would like a description of the diesel you run in your boats. I am new to the inboard diesel world. Next spring when I begin the re-fit on my Sun 27 I want to run the engine at some point. I was planning on filling the tank with #2 off-road/ home heating oil. The only difference to highway diesel is the red dye used to mark the fact that no road tax was paid. Is there a use tax on marine diesel? I do not want to put the dyed fuel in the tank if there is. The dye is quite strong and will re-dye other fuel for sone time. Out here in farm country they check farm vehicle tanks at the livestock auctions, and if they find red in a tank , they will nail you to the wall with fines. Any advice will be appriciated. Thanks, Bryon "Shore Leave"
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red dye
From what I understand. the red dye is for off road purposes and therefore you cannot get more offroad than that. You don't sail your boat down the highway the taxes are used for. And if you have a diesel leak it will turn the water in your bilge red so you do know you have a leak.
From what I understand. the red dye is for off road purposes and therefore you cannot get more offroad than that. You don't sail your boat down the highway the taxes are used for. And if you have a diesel leak it will turn the water in your bilge red so you do know you have a leak.
here in california the diesel we buy at the fuel
docks is red dye indicating no, or at least lower, road taxes were paid. you might want to check with your local taxing authorities.
docks is red dye indicating no, or at least lower, road taxes were paid. you might want to check with your local taxing authorities.
Dye
Richard. Once I have the boat in the water, I too will buy my diesel at the dock. Tim, I agree that the dye would be a good leak indicator, as would the smell. But, I guess my actual question would be. "Is there any tax on marine diesel other than sales tax?" The red dye indicates no "use" tax. I still pay sales tax on it. Bryon "Shore Leave"
Richard. Once I have the boat in the water, I too will buy my diesel at the dock. Tim, I agree that the dye would be a good leak indicator, as would the smell. But, I guess my actual question would be. "Is there any tax on marine diesel other than sales tax?" The red dye indicates no "use" tax. I still pay sales tax on it. Bryon "Shore Leave"
Another thought
When I purchase diesel for my H34 I like to buy it at a truck stop that pumps thousands of gallons a day. Reduces the chances of getting water into the fuel system.
When I purchase diesel for my H34 I like to buy it at a truck stop that pumps thousands of gallons a day. Reduces the chances of getting water into the fuel system.
Having run many small diesels in sailboats over the years, I have learned from experiance. So little fuel is burned in a season, the cost factor is negible overall. The quality of the fuel is vital however. Using anything but the best fuel is just asking for trouble. Because of the large number of high performance diesel autos, gas stations have developed a superior fuel both in cetane rating and cleanliness. I stopped having trouble with boat diesels when I started hauling fuel to the boat in jerry jugs, and filling through a screened funnel. The clear clean auto fuel doesn't leave a speck of dirt. Try putting fuel oil through a screen and notice the black crud.Same with some marina fuel' My diesels start better, run smoother, and do not dirty the stern, and the tank stays clean. I doubt if it costs $10 more a year, and worth it to me. Good sailing Ron B
Older engines need Sulfur
The diesel you get from the gas stations and truck stops are Low Sulfur formulations to reduce emmisions. The marine diesel, #2, and home heating oil has much higher sulfur content. The dye is an indicator for this in addition to the tax. The sulfur adds lubrication to the fuel that many older diesels need. You think your putting "better" fuel in by getting it at the road station, but make sure your not shorting your engine the lubrication it needs. Diesel fuel is "dirty" fuel. Marine diesel engines were built to burn this "dirty" fuel. Buy the fuel at the dock, save your taxes, and make your engine happy. Filters are never a bad idea, either.
The diesel you get from the gas stations and truck stops are Low Sulfur formulations to reduce emmisions. The marine diesel, #2, and home heating oil has much higher sulfur content. The dye is an indicator for this in addition to the tax. The sulfur adds lubrication to the fuel that many older diesels need. You think your putting "better" fuel in by getting it at the road station, but make sure your not shorting your engine the lubrication it needs. Diesel fuel is "dirty" fuel. Marine diesel engines were built to burn this "dirty" fuel. Buy the fuel at the dock, save your taxes, and make your engine happy. Filters are never a bad idea, either.
around here most
marinas also cater to large sport fishers. they use alot of fuel and I believe our fuel at the docks are fresh and of course cheaper than on the road.
marinas also cater to large sport fishers. they use alot of fuel and I believe our fuel at the docks are fresh and of course cheaper than on the road.
when you burn sulfur
you get sulfur dioxide which when mixed with water becomes sulfuric acid!!!! Sulfuric acid will dissolve most metals and attack rubber etc. A priori one would think low sulfur is a good thing.
you get sulfur dioxide which when mixed with water becomes sulfuric acid!!!! Sulfuric acid will dissolve most metals and attack rubber etc. A priori one would think low sulfur is a good thing.
Rob, I've never heard of sulfur lubricating
an engine. Sulfur is a major pollutant unless you're an NRA member. It's a necessary ingredient in gunpowder. As I understand the refining process of diesel, it is drawn off of the cracking tower below gasoline. As such, it contains a lot of oil and that is where the lubricity comes from, not sulfur.
an engine. Sulfur is a major pollutant unless you're an NRA member. It's a necessary ingredient in gunpowder. As I understand the refining process of diesel, it is drawn off of the cracking tower below gasoline. As such, it contains a lot of oil and that is where the lubricity comes from, not sulfur.
Rob and sulfur
Before I retired I was in the trucking business. When they came out with the new low sulfur fuels the problem was in the pumps. A kit was made available that consisted of a lot of different o-rings, etc. Sulfur was never a good thing for diesel engines; it was something we had to live with until the new fuels did away with it (most of it). Ron
Before I retired I was in the trucking business. When they came out with the new low sulfur fuels the problem was in the pumps. A kit was made available that consisted of a lot of different o-rings, etc. Sulfur was never a good thing for diesel engines; it was something we had to live with until the new fuels did away with it (most of it). Ron
I've been warned about #2...
...by the Yanmar people. Even though you think it is the same, there are additives in marine fuel that a home burner doesn't care about. Also, home fuel isn't really as highly refined as marine diesel. Why take the chance for a few pennies per gallon?
...by the Yanmar people. Even though you think it is the same, there are additives in marine fuel that a home burner doesn't care about. Also, home fuel isn't really as highly refined as marine diesel. Why take the chance for a few pennies per gallon?
Not sure about all of this but...
As far as clean fuel, I think you are much better off purchasing it from a truck stop than marine station. Even with the road tax, it is generally cheaper. These truck stops sell millions of gallons of fuel each year compared to thousands for a marine fueling station. I also doubt that there is any difference in the fuels (especially in California) other than #2 not being a clean. That is want many of the pumping station provide in Ca. anyway. I believe that some mfg. are adding biodiesel as an additive to their standard product too (B2) And yes, the low sulphur fuel has created problems with orings and seals (http://www.mbm.net.au/b100/lsd.html) A good alternative is to add some B100 (100%Biodiesel) as an additive or use B20 (20% Biodiesel 80% diesel fuel). Regardless of what you decide clean fuel is the real key (no water or contaminates).
As far as clean fuel, I think you are much better off purchasing it from a truck stop than marine station. Even with the road tax, it is generally cheaper. These truck stops sell millions of gallons of fuel each year compared to thousands for a marine fueling station. I also doubt that there is any difference in the fuels (especially in California) other than #2 not being a clean. That is want many of the pumping station provide in Ca. anyway. I believe that some mfg. are adding biodiesel as an additive to their standard product too (B2) And yes, the low sulphur fuel has created problems with orings and seals (http://www.mbm.net.au/b100/lsd.html) A good alternative is to add some B100 (100%Biodiesel) as an additive or use B20 (20% Biodiesel 80% diesel fuel). Regardless of what you decide clean fuel is the real key (no water or contaminates).
Steve, did you read what's on your link?
The problem is in Australia, not the US. They have been using high sulfur diesel that hasn't been used in much of the US since the mid '80s. The process some of their refineries use to remove sulfur as cheaply as possible, also removes some of the lubricity. Not a problem here in the US. Also they are blaming the failure of many types of there injector seals on a lack of sulfur. Not a problem here either. And we don't use that type of injector. Relax boaters. We're OK.
The problem is in Australia, not the US. They have been using high sulfur diesel that hasn't been used in much of the US since the mid '80s. The process some of their refineries use to remove sulfur as cheaply as possible, also removes some of the lubricity. Not a problem here in the US. Also they are blaming the failure of many types of there injector seals on a lack of sulfur. Not a problem here either. And we don't use that type of injector. Relax boaters. We're OK.
Same problems in the US.
Fred: There were many problem with low sulphur fuel in the US when they originally converted to low sulphur diesel. We now have additives that have been added including biodiesel). So you are correct "Relax Boaters"! http://www.americansweeper.com/v3n1/v3n1lowsulph.html
Fred: There were many problem with low sulphur fuel in the US when they originally converted to low sulphur diesel. We now have additives that have been added including biodiesel). So you are correct "Relax Boaters"! http://www.americansweeper.com/v3n1/v3n1lowsulph.html
I was mistaken, but...
Sulfur is indeed a bad thing for diesel engines, but it is the process of removing the sulfur that in turn reduces its lubricity. I was confused and appologize for passing on my confusion. Personally, Im more concerned with salt water corrosion than the small amount of acid produced by the sulfur. My 2 cents. By the way, I work in a fuel and lubricant testing lab. So I my think I know what Im talking about, but obviously this is not always the case ;-)
Sulfur is indeed a bad thing for diesel engines, but it is the process of removing the sulfur that in turn reduces its lubricity. I was confused and appologize for passing on my confusion. Personally, Im more concerned with salt water corrosion than the small amount of acid produced by the sulfur. My 2 cents. By the way, I work in a fuel and lubricant testing lab. So I my think I know what Im talking about, but obviously this is not always the case ;-)
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