*** Marine Battery Use Survey ***

[jepomer]

Started taking the survey but the questions didn't quite seem to fit my situation.

I have a Capri 22 using a Group 24 deep cycle battery for the electronics and four GC2 batteries for the Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 electric outboard. The boat is on a mooring with no shore power all season.

Batteries are charged using three Ganz flexible panels (two 30 watt + one 55 watt totaling 115 watts) fastened to the foredeck and hatch. These panels are paralleled feeding two Genasun charge controllers: GV-Boost for the motive GC2 24 volt batteries, GV-4 for the 12 volt Group 24 "house" battery.

Maximum draw is when we're late for the starting line — 4-5 knots for 20-30 minutes typically, more leisurely returns at 3-4 knots. A few times the returns have been up to 12 nautical miles at 2-3 knots (these are the real deep discharge conditions).

The first set of GC2 batteries from Sam's Club were manufactured in 2006. I used them in a few different setups until last year (2014) when I bought a new set of GC2 batteries. (The original set is still in service in less critical uses. They still appear to charge properly and hold the charge.) During the first few years, the batteries were charged using a ProMariner charger and shore power. For the past three years the boat has been on a mooring — two years with a stern-mounted rigid 100 watt panel and last year with the Ganz panels mounted flush on the foredeck.

 

[Maine Sail]

Done, and thanks for taking the time to "expose" some facts and myths.

I'm your "Myth Man," remember?

Not really trying to expose anything but I have a few items I want to see the outcomes of. One of those is that the number of deep cycles sailors do really matter little. Most batteries, according to the 500+ responses thus far, are dead before 50 deep cycles. It does not appear we wear our batteries out from over-cycling them.....

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Absolutely ... I was in the pattern of replacing a single battery every time one of them failed. It started that way when I first realized that I bought a boat with one dead battery and one good one. So I rotated in a new battery a couple of times before finally breaking the pattern last year, purchasing 2 batts for the house bank and a small start batt. I also don't have a means to charge, other than by alternator off the engine. For daysailing activities, there just isn't any need to install a solar charger, so batts are probably suffering from sulfation from under-charging. Equalizing the batts sounds like a tedious exercise for those of us who have no access to a charger while the boat is in the water and it's not something I'm going to do over the winter, either. I'm sure my batts suffer from neglect, but it's not enough of a nuisance to replace them every four or five years either.

 

[Endorfin]

Hi All,

I am working on a few articles for marine publications and would like to gather some data on marine batteries and their use.

The survey is quick and easy to complete. Please be honest in your answers. Dishonesty or exaggerating serves no purpose to the data I am looking for so please, please, please answer as honestly as you can.

Please note many answers can have multiple boxes checked.

Marine Battery Use Survey (LINK)

Done!

 

[Jake N Eggs]

Hey Main,

Surprised there was no question about the water quality for top up. My original Grp 31 Trojans I had for 6 years and used tap water to top up. (my buddy used them for another season) The new ones I am using strictly de-Ionized water to see if there is a difference. I doubt it though as 5 years is about the average for lead acid batteries.

 

[Benny17441]

Not really trying to expose anything but I have a few items I want to see the outcomes of. One of those is that the number of deep cycles sailors do really matter little. Most batteries, according to the 500+ responses thus far, are dead before 50 deep cycles. It does not appear we wear our batteries out from over-cycling them.....

I do agree wholeheartedly. The majority of us do not seem to be full time cruisers so I never thought over-cycling would be a major cause. I think the main causes for the demise of our batteries is "convenience". We know it is not good to keep batteries on the charger 24/7 week after week but we do. We know we should check the electrolyte levels frequently and equalize them periodically yet we don't. We know that deep discharges in excess of 50% of capacity cut into the useful life of a battery but yet some of us choose to do it when in certain situations. I have always said that battery life is more related to money than to any other consideration. We use them as we want and replace them when they die. The only thing I'm a stickler for is maintaining redundancy for the sake of safety. Let us know what other reasons your survey may show.

 

[Maine Sail]

I do agree wholeheartedly. The majority of us do not seem to be full time cruisers so I never thought over-cycling would be a major cause. I think the main causes for the demise of our batteries is "convenience".

We know it is not good to keep batteries on the charger 24/7 week after week but we do.

With a quality charger this should not be a huge issue but with a poor charger it ceratinly can be.

We know we should check the electrolyte levels frequently and equalize them periodically yet we don't.

So far over 35% of the 72% who use flooded batteries check electrolyte less than once per year or never. 52% rarely or never equalize.

We know that deep discharges in excess of 50% of capacity cut into the useful life of a battery but yet some of us choose to do it when in certain situations.

nearly 42% of all respondedts don't recharge until 11.9V or lower and almost 2% of those said 11.6V or lower...

I have always said that battery life is more related to money than to any other consideration. We use them as we want and replace them when they die. The only thing I'm a stickler for is maintaining redundancy for the sake of safety. Let us know what other reasons your survey may show.

I think the survey is showing that folks could get a lot more life out of batteries if they cared to but will need to spend hours culling the data........

The big take away thus far is the disparity between mooring sailed boat battery life and dock sailed. Also that boats with solar on moorings seem to look more like dock sailed in terms of battery life... Thus far with over 500 respondent 57% see less than 5 years battery life with 22% of that being 3 years or less!!!

The one gem so far is GEL batteries. With just 4.5% of the respondents with GEL over 63% of GEL users are getting 8 years plus with 24% of those exceeding 10 years...

 

[Claude L.-Auger]

Done, looking forward to seeing your analysis.

 

[Benny17441]

Interesting results about gel batteries but it could be that those who use the gels are more meticulous about taking care of them. Will wait for the final conclusions to the survey.

 

[weinie]

done

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The big take away thus far is the disparity between mooring sailed boat battery life and dock sailed. Also that boats with solar on moorings seem to look more like dock sailed in terms of battery life... Thus far with over 500 respondent 57% see less than 5 years battery life with 22% of that being 3 years or less!!!

I thought your survey should distinguish between docked boats with shore power and docked boats without shore power. I considered answering that my boat was on a mooring even though I'm on a dock, because without shore power, that is basically the behavior pattern.

But perhaps there are too few in this circumstance to make a difference.

 

[kappykaplan]

Good point, Scott. I don't use shore power to charge when I'm at the dock - just solar.

 

[Maine Sail]

I thought your survey should distinguish between docked boats with shore power and docked boats without shore power. I considered answering that my boat was on a mooring even though I'm on a dock, because without shore power, that is basically the behavior pattern.

But perhaps there are too few in this circumstance to make a difference.

It is question #14:

14. If your vessel resides at a dock, is she left with the batteries charging or not charging?

Charging with solar but not plugged in
Charging
Not Charging
Not Applicable

 

[DougM]

Done

 

[nautikaljeeper]

survey complete

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Yes, I did answer 14.

It is question #14:

14. If your vessel resides at a dock, is she left with the batteries charging or not charging?

Charging with solar but not plugged in
Charging
Not Charging
Not Applicable

I answered "not charging" but I wasn't certain if the question was assuming that shore power is available, and the intention was to determine if the owner chooses not to use it. I figured it meant to me that I have no option, therefore I don't charge at the dock. I wondered if there are those among us who have shore power, have a charger, but choose not to charge when leaving the boat (possibly for safety reasons).

(It's remarkable how differently survey questions might be interpreted by respondents. The way questions are organized and worded does make a difference. As simple and clear as the questions may be - respondents can still be puzzled by or miss-interpret the question!)

 

[Maine Sail]

I answered "not charging" but I wasn't certain if the question was assuming that shore power is available, and the intention was to determine if the owner chooses not to use it. I figured it meant to me that I have no option, therefore I don't charge at the dock. I wondered if there are those among us who have shore power, have a charger, but choose not to charge when leaving the boat (possibly for safety reasons).

(It's remarkable how differently survey questions might be interpreted by respondents. The way questions are organized and worded does make a difference. As simple and clear as the questions may be - respondents can still be puzzled by or miss-interpret the question!)

The questions are all geared to battery health and how they are cared for. If an owner chooses to not plug in and use solar that is fine and more healthy than a boat at a dock with no power at all. That boat essentially becomes like a mooring sailed boat if it does not have any alternative means of charging and the batteries never reach full or rarely reach full..

 

[HukilauMike]

I never knew just how much I didn't know!

 

[Richard19068]

I wondered if there are those among us who have shore power, have a charger, but choose not to charge when leaving the boat (possibly for safety reasons).

That describes my use. I don't leave the boat plugged in at the dock but have small solar panels for battery upkeep.

 

[Bob Mack]

Done. Will be interesting to see your results and interpretations. I don't remember being asked what the amp load per day number was? Over the summer I average about 105-120 per day with refrigerator accounting for about 4-5 amps of draw, when running.