Manual Windlass

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Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,804
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
Anyone have experience with manual windlasses? I believe one draw back is that they are slow but they are less expensive and easier to install. Just a thought. Any opinions would be welcome.

Also, any advise on marking braided anchor line? I bought the anchor rode markers from SBO and ended up using them for my back up anchor with a 3 strand nylon rode. My primary anchor uses double braided nylon and I tried using white electrical tape every 30' but it didn't stand up to well.

Thanks Bob
 

JIM B

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Jun 27, 2006
107
Catalina 30 MKII ROOSEVELT AZ
Simpson Windlass

Bob,
I have a Simpson manual windlass on my Catalina 30 and am quite pleased with it. I have a 22lb Delta anchor on 45 ft of 5/16 chain. The windlass really helps. Especially when I have snagged something. My manual windlass is perfect for my purposes and I don't need or want an electric one. It is mounted in the anchor locker and out of the way.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
You already have two manual windlasses, they are called jib sheet winches.

Just throw a rolling hitch on your anchor line and run it back through your jib fairleads like this:
 

Attachments

Oct 22, 2005
257
Hunter 44DS Redondo Beach, CA
Marking braided line -- two things I can think of.

Use colored whipping line -- put in a whipping at regular intervals
Colored thread and a needle.
 

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,710
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Jib sheet winches don't work very well on chain and it is when one gets to the chain that a windlass really is nice.
 

Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,804
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
Thanks Lee, never thought of that. I've got a winter project.

Stu,
I've got 60' of chain to retrieve.
I have one chain hook with 30' of nylon on it, I could make up a second and try that.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
I have a manual SL/Lewmar Anchorman windlass. It has a rope/chain gypsy that makes a retrieving a combination rode quite easy. The gypsy is setup for 5/16" G43 chain and 5/8" nylon rope.

As for marking braided line, if you're talking about an octoplait or twelve-strand line, you can use the regular cloth line markers, and just work them through the rope with a fid. If you want extra security, you can "lock" them in place with a whipping.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Just be aware of the two issues I've seen with double braided anchor line, which are:

1) it isn't as elastic as octoplait or three-strand, so doesn't absorb as much shock.

2) it doesn't really fit windlass gypsies as well as octo-plait or three-strand. Most manufacturers specify three-strand or octo-plait line for their windlass gypsies.
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,086
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Line Whipping

Thanks Lee, never thought of that. I've got a winter project.

Stu,
I've got 60' of chain to retrieve.
I have one chain hook with 30' of nylon on it, I could make up a second and try that.
I can't imagine anchoring anywhere except grounded on the beach where you wouldn't want the 60 feet of chain deployed and you already know how long that is so no need for markers. Then if you are in say 10 feet of water at high tide you'll want maybe a total of 90 or more feet of rode out. i mark my rode every thirty feet. So to expand on the whipping idea which is a great one, whip stripes to know how much rode, for instance the first one will be at 90 feet ( you already have 60 feet of chain) so use one whipped stripe, at 120 feet put two whipped stripes. etc for the length of the rode. As you deploy it the stripes times 30 plus 60 is your scope. Good idea Lee and low cost.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Using jib sheet winches for an anchor windlass

I've got 60' of chain to retrieve.
I have one chain hook with 30' of nylon on it, I could make up a second and try that.
Bob,

The chain hook's a lot easier to "hank on" to the chain than the end of a separate line. As long as you're comfortable it'll hold. It may be easier to simply tie your line that you plan to bring aft to a link of the anchor chain. All you really need is about a 30 foot long 3/8" line, a line you can dedicate to this or use for other purposes, too; heck, an old long dock line would do just fine.

It also may be better for your deck to bring as much chain up as you can by hand and stow it in the anchor locker first, to minimize the amount of chain being dragged back. As I pictured, I use the jib fairlead blocks because of the curve in our deck and it improves/maintains the lead to the jib sheet winch. (We have two jib fairlead blocks, plus a turning block aft, only use the two on the track for these de-anchoring purposes.)

Many will say "don't do this," but it is an option if used rarely. If you feel you want or need a winch at the bow for regular use, then consider one. I also wouldn't want to do this all the time either, because it's time consuming, and quite frankly, a royal pain.:)

My experience is that the use of the "windlass" is more for getting the hook out of a nasty bottom that it is for raising the weight which under normal circumstances could be done by hand. There's usually a pretty short length of rode (regardless of material) that is necessary to disengage before manual retrieval can be used again.

Those with bow windlasses of both manual and electric types seem to use the windlass from A to Z, where this technique would be more like from K to M. Manual bow windlass folks may also use theirs in this "range."

Added 10/4: Also, using the engine and/or your boat to break out a stuck anchor seems a lot easier than buying and installing any kind of windlass, as noted by Maine Sail, below. The link I provided to my anchoring antics "off the shelf" did just that as a weird example.

We're also talking here about 1/4" to 5/16" chain. My experiences with anything bigger, 3/8" and up, is that a windlass becomes a necessity rather than a luxury. So many folks have 3/8" chain on 22# anchors, and for the life of me I don't understand how they've sized their anchoring systems - the chain is way overkill for the anchor size, or the anchor is undersized for the intended system use.

higgs -- maybe you misunderstood the concept: you don't bring the anchor line or chain itself aft. You tie a separate line, which you can easily reeve through the jib fairleads, to the anchor line (rode with a rolling hitch) or chain (with a chain hook or simple knot through a chain link).
 
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Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Anyone have experience with manual windlasses? I believe one draw back is that they are slow but they are less expensive and easier to install. Just a thought. Any opinions would be welcome.

Also, any advise on marking braided anchor line? I bought the anchor rode markers from SBO and ended up using them for my back up anchor with a 3 strand nylon rode. My primary anchor uses double braided nylon and I tried using white electrical tape every 30' but it didn't stand up to well.

Thanks Bob
I have a manual but rarely use it. Did not use it even once this season. I let the boat do the work, and then I only need to haul the anchor the 10-30 feet from the bottom to the bow.

I mark my double braid, when it's good and dry, with a fat Sharpie marker. Easy, quick, lasts a long time and can be done with multiple colors to suit your own desires. If it begins to fade I simply take another pass with the marker..

My experience is that the use of the "windlass" is more for getting the hook out of a nasty bottom that it is for raising the weight which under normal circumstances could be done by hand. There's usually a pretty short length of rode (regardless of material) that is necessary to disengage before manual retrieval can be used again.
I have never quite understood this thinking. You have the wolds best windlass for yanking a stuck anchor out, your boat. Simply get the rode vertical, snub it on a cleat, put her in forward. Done... I use my boats motor, a quick blast of forward, to move forward on my rode using the boats momentum & inertia. I then simply collect the rode, with minimal to no "pulling", as the boat moves towards the direction of the anchor. When the rode gets vertical I snub it.. The only lifting I generally do is raising the anchor off the bottom, after the boat has yanked it free..
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Just be aware of the two issues I've seen with double braided anchor line, which are:

1) it isn't as elastic as octoplait or three-strand, so doesn't absorb as much shock.
A statement like that unfortunately can no longer be applied in a blanket fashion. There are now, and have been, dedicated double braids designed and engineered for anchoring and mooring that perform exceptionally well.

The Nova Braid NovaGold (LINK) double braid anchor line I use offers significantly better elongation than does New England Ropes 3 Strand anchor line and also better elongation than NER Mega Plait.

According to the manufacturers spec sheets, linked below, at a 30% working load the NovaGold double braid will stretch about 14%. At a 30% working load New England Ropes 3 Strand will stretch about 4% & Sampson 3 strand about 10%. So the double braid I use is actually more elastic, flakes better, has better abrasion resistance and does not hockle. It also works very well in my windlass even though I don't use it much.

Even NER Mega Plait, which I used on my old power boat, and hated, does not beat the NovaGold double braid in either tensile strength or % elongation.

NER publishes a 20% working load stretch for Mega Plait of 10.4%. At a 20% working load NovaGold double braid offers a 12% stretch and the individual strands don't pull and pucker like Mega Plait does, which is the reason I hated it!!

On top of that NovaGold double braid beats both NER 3 strand and Mega Plait, as well as other anchor rated lines, in tensile strength.

Here are the specs for 5/8" rodes - NovaGold beats them:

------------------------------------Stretch @20%----- Tensile Strength

NER 3 Strand------------------------------------ 3%------------12,200
NER Mega Plait - 12 strand -------------------10%-----------10,000
NovaGold DB ------------------------------------12%-----------14,800
Yale Octo Brait - 8 strand ---------------------12%-----------12,200
Sampson 3 Strand ----------------------------- 10%-----------10,000

NovaGold and manual windlass:


P.S. NovaGold can be purchased from Cajun Trading (LINK) and the price is amazingly affordable, was less than NER 3 Strand.
 

Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,804
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
I have not had any problem retrieving my anchor accept once when I got caught in a blow. I just couldn't pull the boat forward myself. I got my (petrified) wife at the helm to drive the boat in the direction I was pointing but the wind and waves kept pushing the boat around and pulling the chain out of my hands. I guess if I did add a windlass it would be for those rare occasions.

I'm getting depressed, I will be hauling her out sometime this month. :cry:
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
High Wind Anchor Retrieval

This is almost a completely different subject, and a windlass is not the answer to getting the anchor up any more than it is when there is no wind. The windlass should NOT be used to haul the boat up to the anchor, ever, as far as I understand it, being windlass-less!:):)

The trick is to motor the boat over the anchor while getting the rode or chain up on the boat. When last I had that problem, my helmsman was too hesitant, so I finally explained to him that when I started to point forward, when I could see the anchor was in front of us and not off to the wide, really GOOSE it until I signal again for neutral, was what worked.

I had another experience when I was singlehanding, and in that case it took me a few tries to get "up on the anchor."

The real trick is to avoid those places where the winds and the fetch permit such a condition to catch you out. In our case it was Drake's Bay, not much of a choice once you're up there 34 miles north of the Golden Gate.

It would be interesting to hear others input.
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
I am trying to figure out how to deploy and retrieve on my boat. Hand signals are a great idea Stu.
Maine sail- when you snub your chain to break the anchor free, what are you snubbing it on? A cleat? or do you have a special chain snubber?
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Hand signals

This is another case of KISS. We used to have a whole bunch, now it's just TWO:

1. Point forward with your hand arm or finger: put boat in gear and motor forward - the amount of throttle is determined between the crew BEFORE anyone goes on the foredeck. That amount of throttle is determined by the conditions.

2. Hand palm down swung horizontally - back off throttle (if required) and put gear in neutral.

2, a. If it's very calm you may need to have a "reverse" signal to back down on the anchor, thumb down works.

Really, that's all you need. OH, one more, THUMBS UP when the anchor is up enough for the helmsman to start motoring slowly out of the anchorage - but that's so obvious...:D

No yelling, no fancy headgear or electronics, no difference if it's windy or calm.

OK, it's FOUR, I lied, but you really have to depend on only two main ones.
 
Nov 26, 2008
1,970
Endeavour 42 Cruisin
we use the cruising solutions headsets. they work fantastic. one of the best pieces of equipment on board. no shouting, no misunderstanding hand signals. calmly discuss anything and everything while pulling up anchor.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Maine sail- when you snub your chain to break the anchor free, what are you snubbing it on? A cleat? or do you have a special chain snubber?
My special chain snubber, on this boat, is the chain gypsy on my manual windlass.

On boats I've owned without windlasses I have rigged a short line with chain hook, like you'd use on an all chain rode for a snubber. The short line, maybe 8"-12" total, had an eye on one end to simply drape over a cleat. I just kept it in the anchor locker and it could be put over the cleat for snubbing the chain in about four seconds.
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
Did you make the outlet for the chain on your anchor locker door, or was it already like that?
 
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