Mandates

[Cap't Ron]

How many of you think there should be a required course for boaters?

For my part, I vote in favor of a minimal requirement of the 'Power Boat Squadron'
a free week-end or evening course.

Maine Sail talked of his frustration in meeting folks who could not anchor properly, and I can't blame him for venting, he had good reason.
I think a requirement of some rudimentary knowledge like they teach in the PBS course would eliminate the "captain" syndrome, and turn them into real skippers.
I have taken the PBS course twice once at 14 again at 20, and this was instrumental in my going on for my USCG license.This would (could) solve some problems like proper anchoring, yes?

On another note, I posted to you mates on my lack of good judgement on concealing a basically worthless .22 five-shot whilst visiting a few island nations in the South Pacific, notably Fiji where they had just had a 'coup d'e tat' and it seemed like the government was unstable. So, that was my 'reasoning'.;-)

The point: in New Zealand they have a required course for gun-owners with a test, so they are safety concious, and are registered.This would likely be impossible to implement here in our United States, but may have good effect.

I am mid-road politically and have faith in our constitution including the right to bear arms.I do believe that right has been taken to extreme limits with .50 calibur armor-piercing firearms and the like for profit now tho~

It would be interesting to hear a dialogue from both sides on these subjects with mutual respect for the sailors and gentlemen we are here.

1) I am not in favor of the beauracracy getting involved in my daily life, but they are involved in boating (MSD) and weapons now, and could be of some good use here.
2) Even law enforcement is in favor of legislating some of these God awful weapons that get into the hands of criminal elements.

 

[porsche]

boating safe

I am all for a basic boating course. I am still learning as are many of us. but there are way to many boaters "power and sail" that have no clue as to the basic laws. There are fights at the ramp even because some people don't even know the rite of way. Alan

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Required courses.

This equates to some form of licensing which I am in favor of.
I think that there should be no minimum age requirement as long as you pass the course. This will keep boating as a family participation sport.
As for guns, I think everyone except felons should be able to own them. I do however feel that they should be registered. And also some kind of maximum allowable limit. To take things to an extreme, I dont think RPG's and portable rocket launchers should be allowed. Therefore some kind of rational agreement should be reached.

Tony B

 

[Benny]

Enough is enough.

I'm a big proponent of education but compulsory courses and licensing are far from the desired solution. Go to any shopping mall parking lot and you will find a lot of licensed drivers that do not park properly. I doubt it is not that they don't know how to do it, but it is because they don't care . What makes you think that a safety course will improve how some boaters behave? The ones taking a safety and seamanship course are hardly the problem; these are people interested in bettering their skills. Bringing beurocracy and fees into the mix will benefit no one.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

licensing doesn't change ignorance or stupidity

Unfortunately, licensing or some limited knowledge base usually doesn't prevent people from doing stupid things.
When someone doesn't know how to anchor properly, get their boat in/out of the slip or otherwise operates their boat to endanger, we would do better to try and educate them rather than simply vent here which is far from constructive.
I can't imagine anyone with a boat who doesn't want constructive advice if it is given politely and properly and which would help more than some generic training program or license

 

[Nice N Easy]

Tony

I don't care, just as long as they don't put a maximum age on it.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Phillip

By the time we are in aluminum walkers and diapers, I will concede. LOL
Actually, when that time comes, I will be in a powerboat with a potty seat rocker. I wouldnt want to embarass sailors.

Tony B

 

[CalebD]

I'll try to be a gentleman about this.

I was going to make the point that Benny did about licensed car drivers but he beat me to it. Most people can get a license and then behave pretty much as they want on our roadways although most drivers are courteous and relatively law abiding. I hate to think about what our roadways would be like if there were no bureaucracy governing licensing of drivers. Of course, this does not stop unlicensed and uninsured people from driving anyway. There is a parallel here with boating and even gun ownership.
I took the Power Squadron course about 15 years ago and about 6 years ago the Basic Keel Boat course to improve my skills as I now own one. I would like to take more courses but am learning all the time anyway.
Driving, boating and using guns can all be dangerous activities. That should not stop the conscientious owner from pursuing their favorite activity though. Education and safety are as important on the water as they are on the shooting range and on the road. Most people who own guns know how to keep them safely in their homes.
Legislation and licensing will not prevent misuse in any of these areas. Safety courses for boaters and PWC users is a great idea but in practice it is hard to see how forcing people to do so will actually change anything.
Well framed questions Cap'n Ron.

 

[Cap't Ron]

I'm learning....

Good to see what people think, I agree with most here, especially Nice & Easy on the age limit, its catching up with me too.

I too have been against the government getting into sailing especially, but have changed on that one. It would have to do some good wouldn't it?

There is a relatively 'new' statute here in California, it requires all 'powered vessels' meaning any with an engine.
It basically makes virtually all boaters put a small, maybe 3" X 1" sticker on their stern.It is a warning on the ill effects of carbon monoxide poisioning due to "Wake surfing" holding onto the swim platform while 'surfing' with exhaust full in face....;-) I agree boys, this sticker will NOT stop these idiots, will they read it? Can they read? and thirdly do we need to protect these people? lol, no, we do as civilized folks need to protect the 'fearless' as well as the reasonable too.

Fire arms for protection is exactly what George, Jeff, Ben & the boys wrote aobut in our constitution, but some of these awful weapons that end up in the hands of angry fundamentalists that want to be martyrs are not what the ol boys had in mind, ya think?
My grandmother gave me a .410 at age ten, shot a buck with a 30-30 lever action winchester at 15, and use to load me own shotgun rounds too.

Guns are a part of our American cluture and heritage, we would still be under Brittish rule without the people having arms. Meaning 'minutemen' owning weapons.This makes it difficult for a miltary dictator to gain control of a country as well.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Capt Ron

Think again, LOL

Sorry folks, I just couldnt help it. Didnt mean to get political, but it seemed funny to me
My apologies

Tony B

 

[Cap't Ron]

Tony

You have a pretty heavy opinion in my book Tony as you put up some insightful posts here.

While I think again, I will say that we do need the yin and yang, Rush and Jessee, Bill and Newt, in this country for a dialogue so we can learn and make better choices.I'd like to see four strong parties with zero lobbie $ and a law against these greedy double dipping SOB senators becoming lobbists after losing or retiring.

We need a system of non-poiitical politics in this land.

Guns are a part of this country, we need to see that they are for protection, like defending ones home, hunting, target shooting, or collecting, not war weapons in the hands of numbskulls that will sell to the highest bidder.
That is what I'm thinking outload here.

For your post, I will say that the skippers that I have known, some highly experienced, that got into trouble it is always the ego. Overconfidence is the killer, and you ae responsible of others, not just yourself when out there, even when single-handing.

There are old sailors, there are bold sailors, there are no old, bold sailors.

 

[Ctskip]

I wonder is licensing is the answer

The car in the parking lot is a perfect example. People just don't care anymore. Look at the guy who jumps out of a perfectly good airplane. Who controls them? they control themselves. Why can we control ourselves? Maybe have a dedicated teacher/mentor/whatever in every marina hold classes and screening of all who use the facilities. Even scuba diving. One cant go out and buy scuba gear and go diving . Can they? they all look out after each other. Go 4 wheeling and see how they control/help/teach each other on the course. and that is what the boating world must. Look out after each other. We are so independent we don't really care how the guy rigs his boat or how he utilizes it. as long as it doesn't interfere with what and how we want to do our thing. JMHO
Most just don't care how they do it, as long as they look good doing it.

Keep it up,
Ctskip

 

[Recess]

Scuba

In order to get some air tanks filled or rent tanks (at least in the areas I have dive) you must have a basic scuba course. Then you have a card for life. There are a bunch of divers out there that have certification cards and are as wreckless as people without them, same ocean - same day. I do not know what the answer is but anytime the government gets involved with regulations, it is just a matter of time that we all lose in regard to recreational activities. I am sure the insurance companies would love regulated certification.

 

[JohnS]

Cars and airplanes

Car licenses are a lousy analogy. The reason we have so many piss-poor drivers is not that licensing is ineffective, but that the licensing requirements are laughable at best, and enforcement is exceptionally lax. Not to mention, you pass the test once and then you never have to remember any of it again to maintain your licensing. Part of the reason, I suspect, is that in most parts of the country, driving a car is considered a necessity of life, and they don't want to make life too hard on people.

Now boating can rarely be called a necessity of life (I know most of us feel differently), so I think a minimal level of competence should be required, and strictly enforced. If you can't meet the requirements, too damn bad, you don't get the license. If you drive the boat w/o a license, you endure a painful penalty.

An analogy would be airplane pilot licensing. If licenses weren't required, there'd be as many jackass pilots as there are jackass boaters, running into each other, and dropping out of the sky every other day. If pilot licenses were issued like car licenses, same story. I don't know the specifics of pilot licensing, but I know they don't give them out just for asking.

As for guns, I think licensing along the lines of airplane pilots licensing is a good idea. No-one should be allowed to use a gun without proper education. And non-burdensome regular testing (every 10 years?) should be included to keep the required knowledge fresh.

I also agree that there needs to be some kind of rational limit on what kind of arms people should be allowed to own. The 2nd amendment protects the right to bear arms, but doesn't define arms. I don't think anyone would reasonably argue that we should all have the right to our own personal thermonuclear bomb. Nor would anyone reasonably argue a slingshot is powerful enough to provide the kind of protection the 2nd Amendment was trying to guarantee. But we've got extremists on both sides of the gun control issue shouting so loud that the rational voices are drowned out.

 

[Doug]

I don't know nuthin'

but it seems you can't fart without a permit/licence/tax/government aproval of some kind. We are so close to fascism to me it's not even the same country I grew up in. All I need is one more government official asking for "my papers" and I may lose it. I love this country but fear my government is allready out of control of the people.
To the original question, no, no more control of anything. It is almost always an agenda to control something else. Like maybe an escape to go cruising.

 

[JohnS]

So maybe we should eliminate all licensing

No drivers licenses, no pilots licenses, no doctors licenses, no lawyers licenses, no regulations at all. How ultimately libertarian. And anarchic.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Capt Ron

I think you missed the joke when I said "think again". Also, when I made the remark about NiceN easy, that was a private joke that only he will get.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

As for non-political politicians, great idea, but that will never happen.
Politicans are predators. They prey on peoples emotions and fears and thats how they get their jobs. Unfortunate, but true. They need backing and that comes from the political parties.
A lot of the problems are also from lawyers that push a point as far as it will go and that gets rediculous at times.

Tony B

 

[Doug]

Fashist John

I won't send this thread to the bilge or whatever the political forum is but the government is NOT Mom and can't/absolutly will not, solve all your problems. It isn't healthy to think it can. "Viva la revolution"

 

[John]

back to the main issue

It seems to me that there is a basic difference between driving a car and sailing a boat. In a car, a slow speed is some 30 miles per hour, and a safe distance away from the other car is just a couple of feet. A couple of seconds of inattention or miscalculation can cause instant death.

Obviously, in a boat things are pretty different.

 

[Dave D, '94 H26]

a couple thoughts

how about a basic comprehension test of general boating "theory" as a requirement to titling or registration of as vessel? Would that be possible? I would just hate to be enjoying a sail and get pulled over by some overzealous water cop on a slow day or at the end of a month, to see if I have a license! Or better yet, a "channel block" to check licenses (entrap drunken operators).

As for guns: limit quantity caliber, with the understanding that the owner is to ensure the security of the firearms and is at least partly responsible for any illegal acts perpetrated with his/her firearm(s).