Make sure you are PFD "legal" in your dink!

[Napa Ed]

Sailing is an extremely safe activity. More people die by drowning in their bathtub than by falling off a sailboat.

The numbers are pretty close and I suspect (hope) way more people bathe than go boating.

The PFD requirements cover more than sailboats but the law does not differentiate between modes.

From BoatUS: Of the drowning victims who died without benefit of a life jacket, 37% had no flotation devices onboard.

From the National Safety Council
2005 bathtub drownings 394 Lifetime odds 1:9673
2005 water transport drownings 344. Lifetime odds 1:11,079 (about the same as getting shot to death by a cop)

 

[MoonSailer]

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistics/Boating_Statistics_2008.pdf

Sailing is very safe. Look at the statistics. The number of registered boats is going down. All of this safety is making people look for something to do that has less big brother and expense. Maybe riding motorcycles!!!
I really am for safety and with my grandkids they have to wear a PFD unless below decks. But we need to be reasonable.
I wonder what the "alcohol involvement" means. If you had a beer 2 hours before an accident was alcohol involved?? Education is much better than "ENFORCEMENT" no one likes to be forced to do anything . I wear a PFD when as an adult I think that it's use is needed. It is nice to be an adult and decide some aspects of my own behavior. Now if the government wants to prevent preventable deaths they should look at tobacco use. But no taxes are paid on cigarettes that are not purchased. 438,000 deaths /year due to tobacco use. Makes drowning seem rather unimportant as a way to die. http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancertopics/tobacco/statisticssnapshot

 

[Bob V]

Moonsailor are you suggesting...

that we should not be required to carry lifejackets on our sailboats? The law does not require them to be worn in my state unless you are under 12 yrs old. I don't see where one is safer from drowning in a dinghy compared to a sailboat.

There are a lot of laws that I would agree are frivolous but this one saves lives and has no real downside. I feel the same way about seatbelt laws and helmets for motorcycles. I can not think of any good reason not to use those safety devices.

 

[MoonSailer]

I am really pro PFD and the laws are OK . It's the enforcement that gets me . Like the original poster . He forgot his PFD and was lucky to borrow one. But what if no one was around would he have to forget sailing because he did not have a PFD for a short dinghy ride??? As an adult he should be able to decide to row out without a PFD or to call off sailing while he went looking for a PFD. If the water was warm and he was a swimmer the risks would be very small. An adult should be able to make such decicions without the involvement of government enforcers. Boating should be fun!!!! And as I pointed out there are much greater threats to our lives than drowning. We should be treated as adults. Freedom means CHOICE and if you make the wrong choice it is your price to pay.

 

[Cpt. Jon]

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistics/Boating_Statistics_2008.pdf

Sailing is very safe. Look at the statistics.

Thanks, that was interesting to read. In general it seems that so many of the topics on this forum are safety related.

 

[Paul J. Rusyniak]

The rules aren't arbitrary. Boater safety laws serve to protect the majority with rather simple requirements.

Surely, you jest!

 

[Paul J. Rusyniak]

Call me naive, but until I'm persuaded differently, I'll just go on presuming that the motivation here is fewer drowning deaths on inland waterways.

Naive.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I agree & disagree at the same time (you know me!)

Bob, it seems to me that PFDs are proven to save lives, just like my and your points about seat belts.

That said though, when I'm in a dinghy I am MORE LIKELY TO BE in protected waters and have LESS of a need for a PFD. I almost always wear my PFD on my "MOTHERSHIP" so why shouldn't I have the SAME CHOICE in my own dinghy? I haven't seen the answer to that question yet. The law is bass-ackwards in that regard. I still believe in the personal responsibility, and if bozo choose not to wear seatbelts that's their lives, but there should stil be choices left for PFDs cause I thinkit IS different.

That also said, there are bunches of "power boaters" out there in boats not much different than my dink that are speeding around creating havoc.

The issue shouldn't be the stupid "Ya Gotta Wear a PFD in a Dinghy" and "I'm gonna bust you for it." That attitude represents a complete lack of understanding of the difference between dinghies and "powerboats" and fosters a complete disregard for LE becuased they qwon't make or take the time to learn the difference.

Yes, I understand, Harry the Water Cop may not be able to differentiate between Stuey riding his dinghy from his sailboat at anchor into shore and Barney the Macho Powerboater who's running over everyone in his path.

My point is that Harry outghta get a clue and learn the differences. Heck, we can, right?

It should also be enforcement of basic boating courtesy, which, I've found here at least, the LEOs have NO CLUE about.

 

[Paul J. Rusyniak]

In our neck of the woods, we've got folks writing tickets that are not empowered to write tickets!

This is almost funny!!!

August 17, 2009
Section: opinion

Our view: Be firm on snowmobile, boat laws
Observer-Dispatch
AT ISSUE: County deputies must be well trained, authorized to enforce the lawsOneida County must make sure that the seasonal assistants it hires to patrol area waterways and snowmobile trails are properly trained and fully authorized to carry out the duties of a deputy sheriff. Taxpayers are owed that, and depend on elected leaders to ensure the public safety.
District Attorney Scott McNamara recently said that his interpretation of the law is that these special deputies are not authorized to write tickets to boaters or snowmobilers, something they've been doing for decades. Navigation tickets only can be issued by police officers, peace officers or navigation inspectors, he said, and special deputies do not fall into any of those categories.
A day later, sheriff's department officials said they will attempt to have full-time deputies write all marine-patrol tickets issued during the remainder of the summer.
In addition, Sheriff Daniel Middaugh said in a letter to County Executive Anthony Picente that his department will put together a report on the marine unit and look into expanding training for the special deputies to prepare for next year. Similar efforts need to be made with those charged with enforcing snowmobiling laws.
While the tenure of these deputies might be seasonal, their function is critical. The increase in boating and snowmobiling, combined with faster machines, makes it imperative that deputies be properly trained and authorized to enforce the laws. Crimes such as speeding and boating or snowmobiling while intoxicated put responsible operators and others at great risk, and lawbreakers must be dealt with firmly. Without authority to oversee such irresponsible activity, the law would be undermined, putting the public at risk.
It's up to county leaders to make sure that doesn't happen. Picente must follow up on this with sheriff department officials in the not-too-distant future and make sure a workable solution is found.

Copyright (c) Observer-Dispatch. All rights reserved. Reproduced with the permission of Gannett Co., Inc. by NewsBank, inc.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

In our neck of the woods, we've got folks writing tickets that are not empowered to write tickets!

This is almost funny!!!

August 17, 2009
Section: opinion

Our view: Be firm on snowmobile, boat laws
Observer-Dispatch
AT ISSUE: County deputies must be well trained, authorized to enforce the lawsOneida County must make sure that the seasonal assistants it hires to patrol area waterways and snowmobile trails are properly trained and fully authorized to carry out the duties of a deputy sheriff. Taxpayers are owed that, and depend on elected leaders to ensure the public safety.
District Attorney Scott McNamara recently said that his interpretation of the law

and I though judges decided law

 

[kloudie1]

My humble opinion on this one is that the officers should enforce more rigidly those sectors where accidents are more numerous. It seems that would be a more prudent and efficient way to help the public good and safety. I would bet that there aren’t a whole lot of dink accidents and injuries in the area where Mike G and Paul Rusyniak are…. But it is soooo easy for the LEO to pick out one of the “rich” boaters and hassle them! and generate a little income on the side

 

[ChuckThomas]

We now have a law that requires one to wear his PFD in four of the five major lakes in Mississippi. The fifth lake is near Jackson where all the politicians go. Interesting no?

 

[Napa Ed]

Surely, you jest!

No, and don't call me surely.

 

[txjim]

Over time,group behavior shifts toward conformity with the law. Mission accomplished.

Kind of like speed limit laws?

 

[Paul J. Rusyniak]

Kind of like speed limit laws?

Ubetcha!

 

[Bob Poff]

One problem with any law is there is always the "enforcer" who thinks only by the letter of the law, never by the spirit of the law. Yes some laws seem absurd, usually ones created to fit a specific event. Others, like having PFD's aboard for everyone, make some basic sense. The difference is how it's enforced.

My example is back when we sailed on a state park lake. We happened to be in the area of the lake, and I said "Let's stop at the boat and take a quick turn or so around the lake." Not thinking about the fact that it was already late in the day, and the battery was at home charging.

You guessed it. We were heading back for the slip right about sunset with no running lights. Still very much bright enough that anyone (there was no one besides us out anyhow) could easily see a white sailboat on the water. Got stopped by a park ranger on the water. I explained the situation. He decided to give me a warning. "But don't let me see you out here again without lights." where his final words.

Was I in the wrong? Yes. Did I deserve a fine? Yes.

Did he enforce the law? I believe so.
More so than if he would've "sold some Pennsylvania Prefered Stock", as a game warden I know refers to it.

I've never been out without proper running lights since.

 

[shemandr]

My question is why is a LEO charged with environmental enforcement doing this? Shouldn't they be checking holding tanks, or for fuel spills, or septic systems?

 

[Ron20324]

PFDs are required in case a law enforcement deputy runs over you in the middle of the night he can say it's not his fault you drowned.

 

[Paul J. Rusyniak]

PFDs are required in case a law enforcement deputy runs over you in the middle of the night he can say it's not his fault you drowned.

Ron...

Suggest you edit your post to read:
... an inebriated law enforcement deputy travelling at unreasonably high speed..."

Usually, I'd put a smiley face right about here, but THAT case was/is far from a smiling matter.

Paul

 

[Scott B]

Bob, it seems to me that PFDs are proven to save lives, just like my and your points about seat belts.

That said though, when I'm in a dinghy I am MORE LIKELY TO BE in protected waters and have LESS of a need for a PFD. I almost always wear my PFD on my "MOTHERSHIP" so why shouldn't I have the SAME CHOICE in my own dinghy? I haven't seen the answer to that question yet. The law is bass-ackwards in that regard. I still believe in the personal responsibility, and if bozo choose not to wear seatbelts that's their lives, but there should stil be choices left for PFDs cause I thinkit IS different.

That also said, there are bunches of "power boaters" out there in boats not much different than my dink that are speeding around creating havoc.

The issue shouldn't be the stupid "Ya Gotta Wear a PFD in a Dinghy" and "I'm gonna bust you for it." That attitude represents a complete lack of understanding of the difference between dinghies and "powerboats" and fosters a complete disregard for LE becuased they qwon't make or take the time to learn the difference.

Yes, I understand, Harry the Water Cop may not be able to differentiate between Stuey riding his dinghy from his sailboat at anchor into shore and Barney the Macho Powerboater who's running over everyone in his path.

My point is that Harry outghta get a clue and learn the differences. Heck, we can, right?

It should also be enforcement of basic boating courtesy, which, I've found here at least, the LEOs have NO CLUE about.

That's kinda like saying I shouldn't have to wear my seatbelt, cause I'm only driving around the neighborhood or slowly over to the convenience store.....

In my case my dinghy goes 2-3 times faster than the sailboat and I'm far more likely to be thrown from the dinghy than the sailboat, unless I'm putt-putting to shore for the doggy pee. If I get thrown, I'd like to be floating when I come to the surface and with the kill switch attached to the pfd, I want the dinghy still within arms reach or so.

I have no problem with a law that I already obey anyways. I was wearing a seatbelt long before it was law.