I recall this subject being bounced around in past forum posts but can't seem to locate any. As time marches on, I'm having a more difficult time uncleating the mainsail in a gust. I have trouble with anything above my shoulders. I've seen photos (somewhere) of adding a mainsheet traveler in the cockpit. I understand that there are several to this arrangement...shin buster, stress on the boom, but it's either that or find another boat. Also, I'm not enthusiastic about giving up the performance of the P-23. Any ideas for a lower spot for the mainsheet. Pictures would be most appreciated. Cheers
Mainsheet location
- Thread starter Skedaddle
- Start date
Welcome to the forum!!
What cleat do you have, where is it located and hwo much purchase do you have on it (original design was 4:1)? Photos of your existing mainsheet set up would be helpful to see what improvements can be made. Looks like the mainsheet comes off the end of the boom in this link to the transom: Precision Boat Works. For a boat that small I like a cam cleat to secure the mainsheet.
What cleat do you have, where is it located and hwo much purchase do you have on it (original design was 4:1)? Photos of your existing mainsheet set up would be helpful to see what improvements can be made. Looks like the mainsheet comes off the end of the boom in this link to the transom: Precision Boat Works. For a boat that small I like a cam cleat to secure the mainsheet.
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You need to decide if you want to pull up or down to release the main. I don't know that a traveler has much to do with it.
If the cam is at the boom level and faces down it can be very hard to cleat as it is above the long muscles. But it should be relatively easy to release. Your weight pulling down should work especially on a 23' boat.
It the cam is low and facing up it is the opposite. You can use your leg muscles to release it but you may need to stomp on the sheet with your foot to cleat it.
You can build and use a pennant made of wire that can be used to put the block and cam in-between the upper and lower position. Flexible 7x19 SS wire can be bent around SS thimbles and nicro-pressed into eyes.
www.defender.com
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If the cam is at the boom level and faces down it can be very hard to cleat as it is above the long muscles. But it should be relatively easy to release. Your weight pulling down should work especially on a 23' boat.
It the cam is low and facing up it is the opposite. You can use your leg muscles to release it but you may need to stomp on the sheet with your foot to cleat it.
You can build and use a pennant made of wire that can be used to put the block and cam in-between the upper and lower position. Flexible 7x19 SS wire can be bent around SS thimbles and nicro-pressed into eyes.
Worldwide Enterprises 7 x 19 Stainless Steel Rigging Wire
Stainless steel 7 x 19 wire is very flexible and commonly used for sailboat running rigging (halyards, outhauls), pennants, trailer winches and lifting bridles. Features: Stronger and more flexible than 7 x 7 wire Good for applications where stre
Suncor Heavy Duty Stainless Steel Thimbles
Features: The Suncor Heavy Duty Thimble is available in several sizes to ensure a perfect fit for every project Material: Grade 316 stainless steel Maximum corrosion resistance and durability Applications: I
U.S. Rigging Oval Double Sleeves Swage
U.S Rigging's Zinc plated swage sleeves are manufactured to U.S. Military standard MS-51844 and make it easy to secure loops with various wire sizes. Features: Manufactured to U.S. Military standard MS-51844 Corrosion protected, with an attractiv
I was intending this post for the Precision Forum. The mainsheet is attached as standard for this model...to a triangle at the top of a split backstay. There is no traveler on this model. Since posting, I discovered a fairly detailed discussion on the Precision FB page but any input is welcome. Thanks
You need to decide if you want to pull up or down to release the main. I don't know that a traveler has much to do with it.
If the cam is at the boom level and faces down it can be very hard to cleat as it is above the long muscles. But it should be relatively easy to release. Your weight pulling down should work especially on a 23' boat.
It the cam is low and facing up it is the opposite. You can use your leg muscles to release it but you may need to stomp on the sheet with your foot to cleat it.
You can build and use a pennant made of wire that can be used to put the block and cam in-between the upper and lower position. Flexible 7x19 SS wire can be bent around SS thimbles and nicro-pressed into eyes.
Worldwide Enterprises 7 x 19 Stainless Steel Rigging Wire
Stainless steel 7 x 19 wire is very flexible and commonly used for sailboat running rigging (halyards, outhauls), pennants, trailer winches and lifting bridles. Features: Stronger and more flexible than 7 x 7 wire Good for applications where streSuncor Heavy Duty Stainless Steel Thimbles
Features: The Suncor Heavy Duty Thimble is available in several sizes to ensure a perfect fit for every project Material: Grade 316 stainless steel Maximum corrosion resistance and durability Applications: IU.S. Rigging Oval Double Sleeves Swage
U.S Rigging's Zinc plated swage sleeves are manufactured to U.S. Military standard MS-51844 and make it easy to secure loops with various wire sizes. Features: Manufactured to U.S. Military standard MS-51844 Corrosion protected, with an attractiv
Agreed that a traveler isn't really the issue. I'm looking for a way to cleat and uncleat below my shoulder. I was thinking traveler for height. Thanks for the insights.
I'm just guessing here, but on both my Catalina 22 and our 25, the cam cleat on the mainsheet tackle was at the bottom, not at the blocks connected to the boom. Could you simply have your mainsheet tackle installed upside down?
That makes no sense.
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I just googled some Precision 23 pictures and that helps it make a little sense. Looks like the boat has a very low split backstay - around the height of the pulpit, and the bottom block for the sheet is indeed anchored there. Strange setup indeed.
I’d look for ways to rearrange that lower block. Make it so it’s not a cam cleat. Have the output of that block run down to the stern at the top of the transom. Mount a single block with a cam cleat there so you can make the adjustments at hip height instead of up in the air.
This is a different way to achieve what @Davidasailor26 suggested -- Why not attach the bottom block directly to the top of your transom? You'd need an eyestrap and possibly a longer mainsheet.
If you're having trouble uncleating it in general you could use a higher purchase setup. Going from 3:1 to 6:1 made things much more manageable for me
If you're having trouble uncleating it in general you could use a higher purchase setup. Going from 3:1 to 6:1 made things much more manageable for me
I like that idea too if the angles work. You’d need the attachment point to be strong enough to hold the entire boom load instead of just 1/3rd of it from my suggestion, but other than that it sounds pretty good.
I guess it would have helped to lead with this photo (not my boat). I was hoping I could mount a towel bar traveler like a Catalina 25.
There is no way I can see to clear the backstay bridle and tiller. I'm considering a Barton removable traveler to limit shin injuries at the dock.
True! In my younger racing days if you werent bleeding somewhere by the finish you weren't racing hard enough.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,832
“There is no way I can see to clear the backstay bridle and tiller.”
I agree the current set up is a compromise. I would be looking for an alternative.
Exploring online images, it appears the set up is a factory design. You have a lot going on at the transom. A tiller, the close set twin back stay shrouds, the twin pulpit seats, and the boom end mainsheet which falls over the rudder. On the other hand the controls are concentrated in the stern near the helm person.
One possibility is to raise the attachment point of the split back stay on the back shroud. This could allow you to spread the secure points on the transom to near the pulpit vertical braces. Then you could install a short transom bar between the split back stays and above the rudder as in the Catalina.
It is still a compromise.
I agree the current set up is a compromise. I would be looking for an alternative.
Exploring online images, it appears the set up is a factory design. You have a lot going on at the transom. A tiller, the close set twin back stay shrouds, the twin pulpit seats, and the boom end mainsheet which falls over the rudder. On the other hand the controls are concentrated in the stern near the helm person.
One possibility is to raise the attachment point of the split back stay on the back shroud. This could allow you to spread the secure points on the transom to near the pulpit vertical braces. Then you could install a short transom bar between the split back stays and above the rudder as in the Catalina.
It is still a compromise.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,832
I am just spitballing here. You like the big open space of the cockpit.
Many dinghy sailboats have the mainsheet attached to the sole of the cockpit. Puts the mainsheet beneath the end of the boom or angled forward. Attached to the deck, on a pedestal or on a traveler mid cockpit. Again a compromise as the cockpit can become too busy. It does put the mainsheet in a better place to be managed and the line is not draped over the tiller where it can foul the tiller.
Many dinghy sailboats have the mainsheet attached to the sole of the cockpit. Puts the mainsheet beneath the end of the boom or angled forward. Attached to the deck, on a pedestal or on a traveler mid cockpit. Again a compromise as the cockpit can become too busy. It does put the mainsheet in a better place to be managed and the line is not draped over the tiller where it can foul the tiller.
Moving the mainsheet to the cockpit is why I'm considering the Barton removable traveler. At least I can move it out of the way at the dock. The backstay bridle is a custom Precision item made with very thick wire strands. I believe this is to manage the repeated twisting at the mainsheet attachment point.
Instead of a whole traveler, you could just remove the cam from your current fiddle block, run the tail of the mainsheet lower, perhaps on the transom, with a single block and cam.
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jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,832
I can undestand that the Precision made up the back stay bridle to address the design that they developed. While the basics are specific to the boat the design, the materials used are not unique. The 316 stainless rigging wire 1x19 is available from many sources in a variety of dimensional sizes. i.e. 1x19 Wire - Type 316SS
The rig design I suggested is just a less expensive idea than the Barton Removable Traveler design. The Barton design looks very nice and appears would serve your purpose.
The stainless spring clip used in the video demonstration by Barton, while quick and easy to use would not be my choice. The clips are a known failure item when under twisting strain as likely for a mainsheet block. Breaking strength 200-400lbs unless twisted then 0 to unknown.
There are other connectors that are better suited for the Mainsail sheet to traveler connection.
The Harken shackle - 2770lb. Max. Working Load, 5540lb. Breaking Load
Soft Shackles - Breaking load dependent on material and design. As an example here is a manufactured design.
Breaking strength 5,212 lbs Diameter 4mm (~5/32") by Marlow Soft Shackles
A Tylaska Shackles – Snap Shackle - They have a breaking strength of 12,000 lbs and weigh only 5.6 ounces
The rig design I suggested is just a less expensive idea than the Barton Removable Traveler design. The Barton design looks very nice and appears would serve your purpose.
The stainless spring clip used in the video demonstration by Barton, while quick and easy to use would not be my choice. The clips are a known failure item when under twisting strain as likely for a mainsheet block. Breaking strength 200-400lbs unless twisted then 0 to unknown.
There are other connectors that are better suited for the Mainsail sheet to traveler connection.
The Harken shackle - 2770lb. Max. Working Load, 5540lb. Breaking Load
Soft Shackles - Breaking load dependent on material and design. As an example here is a manufactured design.
Breaking strength 5,212 lbs Diameter 4mm (~5/32") by Marlow Soft Shackles
A Tylaska Shackles – Snap Shackle - They have a breaking strength of 12,000 lbs and weigh only 5.6 ounces