Subject : Mainsail problem Hello, I have got a few questions that you may answer for me : First I'm French and bought last summer a Hunter 460, which is based in the French Riviera. And when there's strong wind, I have got some difficulties to reef the mainsail. According to local sailmaker, it appears that a 46 footer with a partly fullbatten sail of such an area must be equipped with a mast track, with ballcaring travellers at the end of the full battens, otherwise the slides block in the mast. Nobody in Hunter Marine Corp. agree this opinion, but they believe in a cut default causing excessive frictions and they are sure that their 460 mainsail design is quite suitable. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to join them, and the French representative of UK Sails never contacted me. And when I look at your forum, I find a lot of people talking about installing mast track. Is this because of the same problem ? If it is the case, Does Hunter is responsible, is it a conception's default ? And can I use the warranty for the reparation (it is a bit expensive and why would I repair a brand new sailboat) I hope you can help me, Best regards, Philippe RICARD gtl@claranet.fr If it doesn't work, try pierre.yvon@libertysurf.fr
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Philippe Ricard
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Rich Stidger
My opinion
Philippe, My experience is with the 40.5, not the 460. My mast is 63' off the water and my mailsail has 4 full length battens. I also had a problem getting the sail down as well as in reefing situations. The first year, I had minor problems but in the second year I had increasing difficulty getting the sail to drop when I released the halyard. I used a cleaning and lubricating system (FasTrac) the second year as an attempt to solve the problem. At the start of the third year I installed the Strong Track system. This is a track with stainless steel slides that have a very low combined friction. All of the mast slugs were replaced with these stainless steel slides. The slides at the batten ends are much longer than the slides between the battens. My first year result was complete ease in dropping the mainsail and in reefing as well. I believe that if the factory system of nylon slugs that run into the mast are kept clean of dirt and salt deposits and lubricated with a dry lube then you will have minimal problems. However, the effort required to actually do this is high. In my case, I needed to remove the mainsail in order to insert a cleaning and lubricating device and this needs to be done every 2-3 weeks. I chose to install the track system as the preferred solution. You asked if Hunter has a flawed sail design. I think that the answer is 'no', but I believe that they should install a track system as a matter of standard equipment. I realize that the original design will work, but not nearly as well as a track system. I believe that way to look at this issue is to consider it an 'upgrade' vs a repair. Of course if Hunter were to provide a track system as standard equipment, they would have to add some cost to the price to the boat to cover that feature. Now that I am educated about the design, I now understand the need for such a system. When I purchased the boat, I never realized that the sail track friction would be an issue. My last boat was much smaller and did not have full batten sails, so I never had a problem with it and it never occurred to me that I would have a problem with this sail design. My preference would be that Hunter should provide a track system as standard equipment and increase the price of the boat as needed. This might be a minimal increase for a manufacturer if they were buying many tracks for their entire production. Regarding expense, I recommend the Strong Track system made by Tides Marine in Florida, USA. The system can be installed by you with the mast up. The cost of my system was $1325. I don't think that the 460 mast is much higher than mine, so the cost should be very close. While this is not a small amount of money, it is much less than the other competitor's products. I have a photo forum article on the installation of this system. Search the photo forum for 'Strong Track". Good luck. Rich
Philippe, My experience is with the 40.5, not the 460. My mast is 63' off the water and my mailsail has 4 full length battens. I also had a problem getting the sail down as well as in reefing situations. The first year, I had minor problems but in the second year I had increasing difficulty getting the sail to drop when I released the halyard. I used a cleaning and lubricating system (FasTrac) the second year as an attempt to solve the problem. At the start of the third year I installed the Strong Track system. This is a track with stainless steel slides that have a very low combined friction. All of the mast slugs were replaced with these stainless steel slides. The slides at the batten ends are much longer than the slides between the battens. My first year result was complete ease in dropping the mainsail and in reefing as well. I believe that if the factory system of nylon slugs that run into the mast are kept clean of dirt and salt deposits and lubricated with a dry lube then you will have minimal problems. However, the effort required to actually do this is high. In my case, I needed to remove the mainsail in order to insert a cleaning and lubricating device and this needs to be done every 2-3 weeks. I chose to install the track system as the preferred solution. You asked if Hunter has a flawed sail design. I think that the answer is 'no', but I believe that they should install a track system as a matter of standard equipment. I realize that the original design will work, but not nearly as well as a track system. I believe that way to look at this issue is to consider it an 'upgrade' vs a repair. Of course if Hunter were to provide a track system as standard equipment, they would have to add some cost to the price to the boat to cover that feature. Now that I am educated about the design, I now understand the need for such a system. When I purchased the boat, I never realized that the sail track friction would be an issue. My last boat was much smaller and did not have full batten sails, so I never had a problem with it and it never occurred to me that I would have a problem with this sail design. My preference would be that Hunter should provide a track system as standard equipment and increase the price of the boat as needed. This might be a minimal increase for a manufacturer if they were buying many tracks for their entire production. Regarding expense, I recommend the Strong Track system made by Tides Marine in Florida, USA. The system can be installed by you with the mast up. The cost of my system was $1325. I don't think that the 460 mast is much higher than mine, so the cost should be very close. While this is not a small amount of money, it is much less than the other competitor's products. I have a photo forum article on the installation of this system. Search the photo forum for 'Strong Track". Good luck. Rich
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Craig Coffman
silicon spray worked great for me
The mainsail on my 40.5 was incredibly difficult to drop (raising wasn't easy either) when I first bought it. A trip up & down the mast in a bosons chair spraying silicon spray into the track worked great. It now comes down pretty easy even in a wind. I agree a track would probably give ease of mind regarding ability to drop the sail for reefing at sea. Although I havn't seen the Strong track system, in sounds great. Every sailboat I've ever seen with the slugs in a track has a problem from time to time. On my last boat I just started keeping extra slugs around & changing out one starting to show wear. That & regular lube really helps.
The mainsail on my 40.5 was incredibly difficult to drop (raising wasn't easy either) when I first bought it. A trip up & down the mast in a bosons chair spraying silicon spray into the track worked great. It now comes down pretty easy even in a wind. I agree a track would probably give ease of mind regarding ability to drop the sail for reefing at sea. Although I havn't seen the Strong track system, in sounds great. Every sailboat I've ever seen with the slugs in a track has a problem from time to time. On my last boat I just started keeping extra slugs around & changing out one starting to show wear. That & regular lube really helps.
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Alex
Only a good mast track system will work
..as my experience shows , a one of the best at that , not just smart or S.S. sliders on regular track .The theory is simple : 1.The sail have a big roach 2.and maily ,the mast is quite bendy all this make for unusual friction , since pulling the halyard up cause the slider horizontal movement and friction too .To easse this friction ,fully batten system was dropped not long ago , but problem only partly solved .I bet those older Hunters , with backstays and stright mast don't have such problems . I would expect Hunter , before or paralel to offering in mast furling , should standardly offer one of the best mast track + balls bearing sliders , at least for 34 feet and up boats ; it would solve the extra effort problem which many complain here again and again ,( along with smart flaking system) , and keep the Hunters sailing fast and make best use of they large mainsails... I don't think Hunter is to hold responsable for your problem.There is nothing faulty or broken on your system..it is just a cheaper harder to operate one.. One should expect - or be advised by dealer- that bendy mast+ roachy mainsails will give extra friction..
..as my experience shows , a one of the best at that , not just smart or S.S. sliders on regular track .The theory is simple : 1.The sail have a big roach 2.and maily ,the mast is quite bendy all this make for unusual friction , since pulling the halyard up cause the slider horizontal movement and friction too .To easse this friction ,fully batten system was dropped not long ago , but problem only partly solved .I bet those older Hunters , with backstays and stright mast don't have such problems . I would expect Hunter , before or paralel to offering in mast furling , should standardly offer one of the best mast track + balls bearing sliders , at least for 34 feet and up boats ; it would solve the extra effort problem which many complain here again and again ,( along with smart flaking system) , and keep the Hunters sailing fast and make best use of they large mainsails... I don't think Hunter is to hold responsable for your problem.There is nothing faulty or broken on your system..it is just a cheaper harder to operate one.. One should expect - or be advised by dealer- that bendy mast+ roachy mainsails will give extra friction..
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Don Alexander
Mainsail Cars
Philippe, I found some Rutgerson ball cars which fitted the mast slot on my 376. The representative came on board with many samples and we tried each in turn until one fitted perfectly. You could do the same. Ball slides transformed my boat but there is still the weight of the sail to account for. Also make sure the boom is topped up high so that the last metre of sail is not trying to lift this too. I only fitted ball cars to the batten ends as the stack would have been too high to reach the headboard if I had ball cars on the intermediates Regards, Don
Philippe, I found some Rutgerson ball cars which fitted the mast slot on my 376. The representative came on board with many samples and we tried each in turn until one fitted perfectly. You could do the same. Ball slides transformed my boat but there is still the weight of the sail to account for. Also make sure the boom is topped up high so that the last metre of sail is not trying to lift this too. I only fitted ball cars to the batten ends as the stack would have been too high to reach the headboard if I had ball cars on the intermediates Regards, Don
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