Mainsail reefing

[clinton_edmonds]

I have been looking at the past messages on the subject of mainsail
reefing and there are some neat solutions. I am interested in
installing a jiffy reefing system because I am not a fan of the
roller reefing which I have had on both of the Vega's that I have
owned. I find the the stresses imposed on the sail are so unevenly
distributed that I worry about the sail tearing. In fact it started
to tear on my first Vega in a very strong blow.

There are three problems that I face in installing a jiffy reefing
system which I cannot see having been sddressed in the previous
messages. Perhaps someone has the answers.

1. My luff slugs are retained in the mast track by a removable bolt
with a knurled nut(I don't know how to describe it but I am sure it
is typical to many Vegas). I am nervous about dropping it when I am
reefing and unreefing at my mooring, never mind trying to do it on
open water. Yet, in order to bring the reefing cringle down to the
boom, it has to come out. Getting another one made would seem to be
a daunting task. Has anyone met and solved the same problem? I read
the message of the quick trip to the foredeck, but releasing the
slugs to bring the cringle down was not mentioned.

2. Bringing the reefing lines (and others such as the main halyard)
back to the cockpit - how does one deal with the dodger? When I
bought my current Vega, the previous owner, to accomodate raising
the mainsail from the cockpit, had simply punched a hole through the
transparent plastic, which was then starting to get very raggy and
to spread. I had a new dodger made and went back to the mast winch
to raise the mainsail.

3. Is the tension that can be exerted on the luff reefing lines,
while reefing in a blow, sufficient to partially lower the mainsail?
An associated question is "Does the 'loose' sail between the reefing
line and the boom present a problem?" Can one totally douse the
mainsail from the cockpit?

Any information would be appreciated,Clint Edmonds
V 3326 Gladwyena

 

[pjacobs55]

Clinton,
Are you talking about reefing entirely from the cockpit, or going
forward to do it? If you're going forward, I can outline the
procedure I use, if that would help
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[schroath]

Hi Peter,

I'd be really interested in knowing your procedure, too.

Jody
1240 (I think) "Snipp"

 

[pjacobs55]

Jody,
I'll take a few pictures at the dock, as sometimes my descriptions are
less than clear!
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[clinton_edmonds]

Hello Peter,
I suppose that I was really talking about not leaving the cockpit. i single-hand a lot. Currently, if it is blowing hard, I reef the main before I leave the mooring. If it looks very bad, or if the wind looks highly variable, I go out under foresail alone. I have a furler which makes reducing sail relatively easy. I would like to be able to reef the main from the cockpit on those occasions when the wind and sea state make going forward a little hazardous. Of the problems that I described earlier, the one that bothers me most is the time it takes to remove this track stop in order to bring the cringle down to the goose neck, enduring the high chance of dropping it overboard, lowering the sail the correct amount (without extra track slugs leaving the track), etc. Certainly, I would have to furl the foresail first if I was going forward in order to stop being beaten to death or having an uncontrolled jibe.

I would really appreciate reading your procedure and if you could answer some of the other questions it would be of vgreat help.

Thanks,

Clinton,

V 3326 Gladwyena
pjacobs55 prjacobs@... wrote:
Clinton,
Are you talking about reefing entirely from the cockpit, or going
forward to do it? If you're going forward, I can outline the
procedure I use, if that would help
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[clinton_edmonds]

Peter,

P.S.

I have posted a photo of the 'precious' track stop,

Clint

pjacobs55 prjacobs@... wrote:
Jody,
I'll take a few pictures at the dock, as sometimes my descriptions are
less than clear!
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[schroath]

Thanks Peter. That would be great.

Jody

 

[pelagicasd]

Clinton, Figure on using lots of blocks. We led 8 lines aft. Standing in our cockpit looking at the rear of the cabin we have Vang, Main, Reef 1 and Reef 3 to starboard, To port, Cuningham, Jib, Reef 2 and Topping lift. For the reefing; Line leads from aft of boom up to reefing cringle and back down to cheek block, forward to cheekblock on forward boom, up to forward cringle ( We have sewn D rings with small universal blocks attached rather than cringle forward), down to turning block on base of mast, aft to cabin top deck organizer. From deck organizer aft to top of aft cabin This will repeat for 3 sets of reefing. We secured the bitter ends of the halyards with rope clutches and used C or cam cleats for the other lines. We also have a couple of small winches on the cabin top so we can snug everything down. We led the lines over rhe coaming on the sides of the companionway then drilled holes through the coaming and epoxied PVC tubing in the holes to get a fair lead to the cleats and clutches. We used double height deck organizers (two turning blocks side by side and two blocks high) on the forward port and starboard sides of the forward cabin. Sounds more complicated than it is. To reef we would head up and drop the main a few feet and release the vang. Haul on the first reefing line until it was snug, secure it with the C cleat and tighten back up on the main halyard and vang. You still need to go forward for the ties to secure the belly of the sail to the boom. Not doing so can lead to spray pooling water in the sail. The way around that is Dutchman reefing which we are considering. Walt

P.S. the sail slides stay in the track.To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comFrom: clinton_edmonds@...: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:57:10 -0400Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Mainsail reefing
Hello Peter,I suppose that I was really talking about not leaving the cockpit. i single-hand a lot. Currently, if it is blowing hard, I reef the main before I leave the mooring. If it looks very bad, or if the wind looks highly variable, I go out under foresail alone. I have a furler which makes reducing sail relatively easy. I would like to be able to reef the main from the cockpit on those occasions when the wind and sea state make going forward a little hazardous. Of the problems that I described earlier, the one that bothers me most is the time it takes to remove this track stop in order to bring the cringle down to the goose neck, enduring the high chance of dropping it overboard, lowering the sail the correct amount (without extra track slugs leaving the track), etc. Certainly, I would have to furl the foresail first if I was going forward in order to stop being beaten to death or having an uncontrolled jibe.I would really appreciate reading your procedure and if you could answer some of the other questions it would be of vgreat help.Thanks,Clinton,V 3326 Gladwyenapjacobs55 prjacobs@... wrote:Clinton,Are you talking about reefing entirely from the cockpit, or going forward to do it? If you're going forward, I can outline the procedure I use, if that would helpPeter#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[pelagicasd]

P.P.S. As you tighten the first reef point you will loosen the lines for the 2nd and 3rd reef points also. They to will need the slack taken out. WaltTo: albinvega@yahoogroups.comFrom: bestvega@...: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:41:22 +0000Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Mainsail reefing

Clinton, Figure on using lots of blocks. We led 8 lines aft. Standing in our cockpit looking at the rear of the cabin we have Vang, Main, Reef 1 and Reef 3 to starboard, To port, Cuningham, Jib, Reef 2 and Topping lift. For the reefing; Line leads from aft of boom up to reefing cringle and back down to cheek block, forward to cheekblock on forward boom, up to forward cringle ( We have sewn D rings with small universal blocks attached rather than cringle forward), down to turning block on base of mast, aft to cabin top deck organizer. From deck organizer aft to top of aft cabin This will repeat for 3 sets of reefing. We secured the bitter ends of the halyards with rope clutches and used C or cam cleats for the other lines. We also have a couple of small winches on the cabin top so we can snug everything down. We led the lines over rhe coaming on the sides of the companionway then drilled holes through the coaming and epoxied PVC tubing in the holes to get a fair lead to the cleats and clutches. We used double height deck organizers (two turning blocks side by side and two blocks high) on the forward port and starboard sides of the forward cabin. Sounds more complicated than it is. To reef we would head up and drop the main a few feet and release the vang. Haul on the first reefing line until it was snug, secure it with the C cleat and tighten back up on the main halyard and vang. You still need to go forward for the ties to secure the belly of the sail to the boom. Not doing so can lead to spray pooling water in the sail. The way around that is Dutchman reefing which we are considering. WaltP.S. the sail slides stay in the track.To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comFrom: clinton_edmonds@...: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:57:10 -0400Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Mainsail reefingHello Peter,I suppose that I was really talking about not leaving the cockpit. i single-hand a lot. Currently, if it is blowing hard, I reef the main before I leave the mooring. If it looks very bad, or if the wind looks highly variable, I go out under foresail alone. I have a furler which makes reducing sail relatively easy. I would like to be able to reef the main from the cockpit on those occasions when the wind and sea state make going forward a little hazardous. Of the problems that I described earlier, the one that bothers me most is the time it takes to remove this track stop in order to bring the cringle down to the goose neck, enduring the high chance of dropping it overboard, lowering the sail the correct amount (without extra track slugs leaving the track), etc. Certainly, I would have to furl the foresail first if I was going forward in order to stop being beaten to death or having an uncontrolled jibe.I would really appreciate reading your procedure and if you could answer some of the other questions it would be of vgreat help.Thanks,Clinton,V 3326 Gladwyenapjacobs55 prjacobs@... wrote:Clinton,Are you talking about reefing entirely from the cockpit, or going forward to do it? If you're going forward, I can outline the procedure I use, if that would helpPeter#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[vegatern]

Clinton,
The system that Walt uses was installed on the Tern before I
bought her. It works very well. I added a cam cleat behind the main
halyard winch ( on the coach roof) and pre-marked the halyard with
whipping where it would be when reefed. Fix the halyard in the cam
cleat and head up, release the halyard and the sail drops to its
proper position. One swift pull on the reefing line tightens the
reefing earrings in both the leech and luff. A recent post suggested
being more aggressive with the topping lift and hoisting the end of
the boom well up, rather than just supporting it. That was a good tip
as there is less tension on the leech earring and the line pulls
through easier. (thanks ;-) ) The system is simple enough that
non-sailing guests can put in a reef after just a few tries and fast
enough that with a bit of practice you can tuck in a reef,
singlehanded, while tacking the boat. Since the halyards lead aft a
downhaul is (I think) necessary. It allows one to tug the sail down
from the cockpit if the sail slugs hang up. After an exciting moment
at the end of the breakwater, with lots of wind and traffic, and
trying to get forward to haul the jib down , I added a downhaul to the
jib as well. Its just a stainless shackle on the stay with a small
line to a block on the stem, then back to the cockpit through the
stanchion bases. Clip on all the hanks except the last one below the
shackle, leaving one hank above the shackle. I have posted some
pictures of the setup in the photo section "Tern".
Craig

 

[pjacobs55]

Here's a rundown of my reefing method. Please remember that I'm not a
professional, there are certainly other ways to do it, but this works
best for me.

There is an album at http://picasaweb.google.com/pjacobs55/Reefing02
showing my setup. This might help with the explanation below.

- Steer the boat close to the wind and hold her there with crew,
autopilot, or vane steering.
- Attach the topping lift.
- Loosen off the main sheet.
- Attach safety harness to jack line and move forward to the mast.
- Tighten topping lift enough to take the weight off the mainsail.
- Release main halyard and lower mainsail enough to hook tack reef
eye on reef hook.
- Tighten luff with main halyard and belay.
- Pull in clew reef line until reef clew is snug against boom and
belay. (You may need to bunch all the loose sail onto one side of the
boom.)
- Loosen off the topping lift.
- Tidy up the loose lines, and take slack out of the second reef clew
line.
- Back to the cockpit, tying loose sail around boom at reefing eyes
(optional) on the way.
- Sheet the boom in over the cockpit and attach an extra safety line
through the reef clew around the boom.
- Disconnect the topping lift, and trim the main sheet.
- Breath a sigh of relief that you reefed early!

I'm sure everyone has a different way of doing it. Please feel free
to comment. If there's an easier/safer way to do this I'd like to
know

As a side note, I recently discovered how well our boats sail under
jib alone (I use a high cut 120 on a furler). Certainly the safest
way, especially coming into port, is to dowse the main and use the
jib alone. That's a lot easier than reefing!

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[schroath]

Thanks, Peter, that's a big help, especially with the pictures. One
issue I'm still hung up on, though, is the lines for the second and
third reef. I think I see that you run the lines for the second reef
along the other side of the boom. Is that right? What about those
(like me) with a third reef point? What do you do with that? Maybe I'm
just not seeing my hand in front of my face.

Jody

 

[pjacobs55]

Jody, what you're not seeing is the third reef I have yet to
install :-0
Maybe someone out there with a third reef could help out on this one?
My thoughts on it so far were to maybe have the turning block mounted
on the boom, reeve the second and third reef lines permanently and
make the first reef line an "add on when needed" line.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[capt_sail]

I actually did the opposite on my previous boat, Peter. I kept lines rove for the first and second reefs but not the third. I used the third reef so rarely that I didn't think it worth having that much weight of line hanging on the leach and ruining the sail's shape in light airs. The few times I used the third reef I already had the second reef tied in. I just undid the standing end of the first reef line where it attaches to the boom, pulled it out from the first reef clew grommet, rove it through the third reef clew grommet and secured it back to the boom. It was a bit far aft for the location of the third reef clew, so I'd add a doubled webbing sail tie thru the grommet and around the boom as well... Worked great, and it was easy to shake out with the second reef still tied in beneath it...

Bill
V 1390 Traveler

 

[pelagicasd]

Bill, I like it! WaltTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comFrom: CaptSail@...: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:26:48 -0400Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Mainsail reefing

I actually did the opposite on my previous boat, Peter. I kept lines rove for the first and second reefs but not the third. I used the third reef so rarely that I didn't think it worth having that much weight of line hanging on the leach and ruining the sail's shape in light airs. The few times I used the third reef I already had the second reef tied in. I just undid the standing end of the first reef line where it attaches to the boom, pulled it out from the first reef clew grommet, rove it through the third reef clew grommet and secured it back to the boom. It was a bit far aft for the location of the third reef clew, so I'd add a doubled webbing sail tie thru the grommet and around the boom as well... Worked great, and it was easy to shake out with the second reef still tied in beneath it...BillV 1390 Traveler

 

[vegatern]

Hi Clinton,
You said that the main sail is retained in the track by the sailstop.
The sail should be able to slide all the way down to the gooseneck
without coming off the mast, unless you are missing the gate. There
should be an opening in one side of the track (or groove I guess) that
is, or can be, closed by a metal plate held in place by a bolt. The
sail can be installed with the plate removed, which is then replaced
to retain the sail. I know what you mean about losing stops. I had a
Columbia with that system and was careful to keep a spare on the boat,
and I think West Marine was careful to keep an extra supply just for me.
Craig #1519 Tern

 

[pjacobs55]

Craig,
From Clinton's hull number he has a very late model boat, probably a
Series III. I suspect his mast must have a round slot as his sail
stop is a round 'slug', not a flat slide like our earlier model masts.

Clinton, is your gooseneck fixed (up and down travel) or does it
slide on a vertcal track? It would be interesting to see a picture of
your mast in the boom area.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[pelagicasd]

Hi Peter. I believe the roller boom change came with the Series II. We changed Lyric's mast when we bought OOPS! the salvage series II we owned. Lyric had the removeable crank for the geared gooseneck. The new mast had the the fixed crank on the leading edge of the mast. Lyric had riveted track for the gosseneck and sail. New mast had extruded track and took flat slides. It was also about a foot taller than the old mast. Anyone with riveted track should periodically check the rivets. I found a number of them corroded through on the old mast. Walt________________________________

To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: prjacobs@...
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:12:14 +0000
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Mainsail reefing

Craig,
From Clinton's hull number he has a very late model boat, probably a
Series III. I suspect his mast must have a round slot as his sail
stop is a round 'slug', not a flat slide like our earlier model masts.

Clinton, is your gooseneck fixed (up and down travel) or does it
slide on a vertcal track? It would be interesting to see a picture of
your mast in the boom area.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[pjacobs55]

Walt,
Thanks! That's interesting. My Series I has a riveted track for the
gooseneck and has an internal extrusion in the mast for flat sail
slides.
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[albinvega3283]

Peter

Where have you posted photo please as I cannot find it on Yahoo site

David Wisdish
#3283 Ponteneur