Mainsail Reefing Concept

[philwsailz]

Guys-

Take a look at my attached image and tell me where I am overthinking my "single-line" reefing concept...

A single aft reefing line, (green) is tied directly to the aft reef grommet, (tied to the sail, not to the boom). This line, (green) is led down to a cheek block at the aft end of the boom, and has a block affixed at its forward edge, alongside the boom.

A single forward reefing line, (red) is affixed to a forward-most point on the boom, led up to a block in the forward-most reefing grommet then down to a block at the gooseneck, through the block at the forward terminus of the green line, then back to the gooseneck through a block, down to the base of the mast, out to the deck organizer, and aft.

Note the measured distances "X" and "Y" where "Y" should be greater than "X"

In my mind, this arrangement will still allow for a 2:1 purchase for both front and rear reef points, but does it in a lower-friction manner than if I ran a truly single reefing line all the way, terminating up through and down to the aft end of the boom at the aft reef point.

The down-side I see is the probably flailing of the single block that would be tied to the forward end of the green reefing line; the one that the forward red line runs through. It would be free to swing willy nilly and bang around when the reef is shaken out and the sail is at its fullest. This could be accomplished in-mast though...

Feel free to comment, even hyper-critically; I am seriously having fun thinking about solutions, and just want to know honest opinions on this one...

If by chance someone else has tried this type of a reefing system , I would be curious to know any comments.

 

[Alan]

Very close

This is the single line reefing system that Hunter uses. The main issue with it is the 'floating block' in the middle of the boom. This block needs to be very low friction and then this setup works very well.

 

[Alan]

Better drawing

This one shows it a lot better.

 

[philwsailz]

This is the single line reefing system that Hunter uses. The main issue with it is the 'floating block' in the middle of the boom. This block needs to be very low friction and then this setup works very well.

Interesting... Sort of similar.

But I see that provides a 4:1 purchase for the aft reef point, but a straight 1:1 for the forward? I need to look at that some more. The second image is nicer. That would be a clean setup for sure!

 

[RichH]

Suggest you run the tack end of the line (listed as 'knotted' to a taped cringle) back down to somewhere below the gooseneck .... that way you will get a 2:1 purchase on the 'tack end' of the reef. Just 'through the cringle' and back down ... dont even need a block attached to the strapped webbing to do this.
The area that you have the webbing attachment on the sail will definitely need reinforcing patches on the sail where the web attaches .... or you will risk a 'tear-out'. For this attachment a sewn-in ring with a pressed-in brass 'liner' (grommet) is usually 'best'.

Other -- most gooseneck fittings have a 'hollow' that allows running the reef tack line 'through' the middle of the gooseneck ... and then when pulled, the reef line will only pull down TO (and the reef tack cringle will stop ON the margin of) the gooseneck .... less that you have to 'think about' when reefing.

I personally dont prefer single line reefing systems, as there ARE situations that you need to independently adjust the reef's outhaul; ...... plus, single line systems usually have LOTS of friction in the system.

 

[philwsailz]

Rich-

Are you commenting on the stock Hunter reefing, or the reefing system proposed in the original post?

I would appreciate your comments regarding what is right and wrong with the original reefing configuration thoughts...

 

[RichH]

I guess I got tangled up my own underwear (Im legally blind) ... the comments are on Alan's post (#3) in the thread.

Your 'pic' does have the 2:1 at the reef tack, sorry for faux pas ... the other stuff offered still applies.

 

[Hermit Scott]

In your pic how do you overcome pulling twice as much red line as green line? Or maybe I am reading it wrong. I can't see exactly how you have your blocks set up.
Did you design that and draw it?
Edit: Nevermind I see you have a block on the sail for the red rope.

In the hunter reefing system their "green line" is further forward I guess to tighten the foot of the sail. In the diagram you provided it appears you may have a baggy foot while reefed.
I think you would definitely want to experiment with that to see exactly where it should be mounted so it will outhaul as well as reef down.

 

[sailingdog]

I would advise against doing this. The problem is that the reefing clew cringle won't have sufficient downward pressure on it if the line is not attached to the boom. There is a good reason for the line being attached to the boom and then run up through the clew reefing cringle.

I'd also point out that a two line reefing system is actually a much better way to go because it gives you far more control over the reefed sail's shape, since you can tighten the clew and tack reefing cringles independently of each other.

If you're leading the lines aft to the cockpit, you may not need any purchase for the reefing system, since you will generally have a winch to help tighten the lines.

 

[Stu Jackson]

It is uncanny how

folks try to "invent" or "reinvent" stuff that's been working for many, many years, sometimes over hundreds of years. And lots of times they get it wrong.

The C22 and C25 manuals, certainly available on their websites, clearly show simple jiffy (slab) reefing concepts as they were developed, produced and sold on oh, let's see, a mere 20,000 C22s and 15,000 C25s.

All of them had the clew reef line run from the boom, up through the cringle and back down to the boom and led elsewhere.

That elsewhere could have been to just the fwd end of the boom for reefing at the mast, or to the mast, down and all the way back to the cockpit.

The complications you have introduced to what should be a simple system are completely unnecessary.

Dawg's right, you need the purchase, especially on the clew.

And he's also right about double line reefing (which we have on our boat), although for a C22 (which we owned for quite a while) it could be considered overkill.

 

[sailingdog]

If the idea is to reduce friction in the system, use a small block and put it through the clew reefing cringle and attach the shackle to a stainless steel ring on the other side. This allows you to run the reefing line from the boom up to the block and then down to the block in the boom. This effectively reduces the friction and gives you a two-to-one purchase on the reefing clew. Doing the same thing for the tack reefing cringle makes for a very efficient and low friction reefing setup.

 

[Hermit Scott]

Is there problems having a block attached to a sail? Isn't that going to chafe the sail where it hangs?

 

[Ron20324]

It's a small block, and hangs on the grommet, not so much on the sail- if at all.

 

[Mike Holibar]

I have the same set up that Sailingdog describes. Fyne Spirit has done quite a few miles (50,000) and there is no sign of any chafe. Regards,

 

[sailingdog]

Is there problems having a block attached to a sail? Isn't that going to chafe the sail where it hangs?

Not really. If that is a serious concern, a piece of sail repair tape under the block, on the sail should take care of it.

 

[bffatcat]

slab reefing

I have to agree with sailing dog. I dont see the need or the advantage of a single line reefing system. Too many blocks to bind up to many areas to chafe. A 2 part reefing system has
a hook for the luff gromet and one block and line for the leach. There is not much to chafe
or bind up. This is why 90% of the boats have them. There fast and easy and create
no problems. I can put a reef in my P26 main in under 2 minutes. Im 72

 

[Rich Stidger]

I have always had a single line reefing on my h40.5. However the friction especially at the clew is way too high and would make reefing difficult.

Two years ago I installed a block at each clew reef point. It is so much easier now. Here are some pictures of the installation.

In order to attach the block, I machined two Delrin disks that sandwich the grommet and provide an attachment point. There are other methods but this is the one I chose.

 

[sailingdog]

Rich—

That looks nice, but using a stainless steel rigging ring and attaching the block's shackle to it through the reefing cringle is much easier and cheaper... also faster... Also, the disk connection becomes an additional point of failure....and prevents you from seeing the reefing cringle and what condition it is in.

 

[Hermit Scott]

Did any one else's "post new topic" button disappear? Phil may have grounded me from psoting new topics.
Edit; it's back, actually I think it was always there. This texas heat is getting to me.

 

[philwsailz]

Not THIS Phil!!!


Wonder what up?