Mainsail Handling >>> Furl Boom or ? Agonizing...
- Thread starter Rick D
- Start date
Well, I figure at my age I have three to five years left and I can't imagine the agony of commissioning a new boat with the haircut I'll have selling this. So, this is for us, not a new owner.
New radar and multi-purpose display (B&G & 4G)
Clamshell sail cover, helm cover, dodger & jib sock
New forward electric head and aft Raritan manual (listening Peggy???)
Main salon floor section replacement (old water damage)
New computer, display, blue tooth keyboard and mouse in at nav station,
Standing rigging survey and possible replacement with sheaves.
Possible A3 spinnaker with sock and bobstay for the anchor roller.
Modify cabin hood for easy removal and replace turning blocks. Possible staysail & spinnaker halyard back,
Sails? despite being 10-12 years old appear to be in good shape. Will have inspected and maybe recut if needed and maybe a jib window added.
AIS class B with a shut off. I have a receive only now and I HATE cluttering up the landscape for near-shore use.
Isolation transformer, AGM house bank replacement, down relay for anchor windlass and new rode.
New ham radio and antenna tuner to replace SSB.
But, there's more...
Anyhow, the gravest concern I have is getting this done through the variety of tradesmen (tradespersons >
) I have to deal with to get this done. I am used to doing almost all the work myself, and this will be painful. I simply cannot do it myself with my civic and other committments (to which I over-committed).Rick D.
Just a suggestion; treat it like GC business op. Write up a scope for each job, include any performance requirements, warranty conditions, require past performance documentation and send each job out to the local tradesmen. Require that they inspect the job before bidding. Allow them to provide recommended solutions with cost estimates. The response will sort most of the jacklegs from the pros. Then do an interview and find out who you trust and want to work with. Make it predicable and fun.
This kind of thing is like painting a house - 80% of the job is prep.
This kind of thing is like painting a house - 80% of the job is prep.
Impressive list Rick. Tell me again what your budget is? "25" something? Did I miss a "1" in front of that number?
I know, huh? It sort of depends upon the standing rigging. We'll see about that first. And, I'm going to handle a lot of the work DYI anyway (sure, sure...). The boat is in really good shape. This is sort of the list I would have going forward, simply accelerated to get it all done at once. I could sail the boat as-is for the next five years just fine with what I have, but this would be nice to have now, despite it making absolutely no economic sense at all.
Wow, that clam shell sail cover gives a definite pregnant look to your boom! I see that you have standard lazy-jacks, so how does the endless zipper work? Some how I just can't picture how it zips. I do my own sewing on all things canvas and my winter cover, and I am curious on how this zipper is configured.
Easy; like the cats use. Small block on each end and the line dead ends on the zipper pull from both ends. I will put one block on the outhaul block and the other on the forward part of the cover.
Has there been any reviews published for the boom and/or in mast furling products ? I am considering moving up to a cruiser 35 to 42 and need to know the cost to convert and the associated rigging changes I've any. Second, I am doing this to minimize movement on deck for safety and relieve my spouse mate of duties out of the cockpit. All comments welcome
You can google a ton of reviews for all varieties of furling main, but I suggest you inspect and charter a few of them, and talk to real owners, before you decide what you want to do; conversion is very expensive.
2) You do not need a furling mainsail to avoid leaving the cockpit during, hoist, drop, or reefing. I know, I have a system that allows me to unzip the pack, and attach my halyard before leaving the slip and never have to go on deck again while sailing.
On more than a few occasions I have seen sophisticated, complex, and convenient furling systems stop working, leaving a sail up in conditions where that was not a good thing. In one case the skipper sent his boy up the stick with a box cutter to slice off the sail. In another, the crew had to stand at the mast to feed the furling line...hardly a convenience. I know why these things happened, and how to fix them but so what, they happened and it resulted in a bad day, or a bad passage. Part of the cost of ownership I suppose.
2) You do not need a furling mainsail to avoid leaving the cockpit during, hoist, drop, or reefing. I know, I have a system that allows me to unzip the pack, and attach my halyard before leaving the slip and never have to go on deck again while sailing.
On more than a few occasions I have seen sophisticated, complex, and convenient furling systems stop working, leaving a sail up in conditions where that was not a good thing. In one case the skipper sent his boy up the stick with a box cutter to slice off the sail. In another, the crew had to stand at the mast to feed the furling line...hardly a convenience. I know why these things happened, and how to fix them but so what, they happened and it resulted in a bad day, or a bad passage. Part of the cost of ownership I suppose.
Here is a Practical Sailor review of 5 systems.
http://www.practical-sailor.com/news/boom-furling-systems-7036-1.html
Also some comments here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f116/roller-furling-booms-60550.html
Some of the manufacturers have videos on the web of their products. I know this is true for Schaefer and Leisure Furl. I researched these systems and looked at the Schaefer and Leisure Furl in person before deciding. It is a major refit in terms of cost and work and you don't want to make a mistake.
In that case, I'd try not to spend high on stuff with longevity as you would, ultimately, be buying for the new owner. In which case your approach might otta be "repair" and "second-hand", rather than high quality and new. It's not likely to make much difference on the final sale price of the boat; all buyers--of which there may be few--will want to low-ball the purchase in any event, IMHO, even with fairly new equipment. I just spent about $35 fixing my ST60 masthead weather station instead of buying a new (up-grade) one at ca. $300 (not counting any new installation). It's 18 yr old but still works well enough to last another 3 to 5 years, probably more.
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Rick, what brand clam shell cover did you decide on, and what was your decision model? I'm planning this same conversion next year, and have heard horror stories that may be brand related. I don't think asking for brand advice is against Forum Rules (?) as I have seen other brand names thrown around even on this post. I have seen the various vendors (Stack Pack, Mack Pack, North, etc.) demonstrated at boat shows, but everything works well at boat shows even if the product will never work that way at sea. Thanks for whatever advice.
I had a UK originally (18 years ago). I didn't like it. The sail would fall out of it and it was more of a hassle than a traditional cover and lazy jacks. Removed the cover, modified the lazy jacks to stow-away and used that until now; later modified the cover to a behind-the-mast one. Just got to be too much of a PITA to put the cover on et al. This cover is Quantum because I saw another on a 40.5, the loft is local and the sail inventory is Quantum. I spent a lot of time telling him what I didn't like about the prior one and what my preferences were for this. A lot of the original issues were the size of the cover itself and the lazy jack system which Quantum seems to have addressed, but I need a season on it to evaluate.
More like an integrated system. I had a Doyle which was too small and did not drain well, went back to a Neil Pryde "lazybag" 3 years ago and am very happy. NP has some great pricing. Some install features that make this system work well: 1) more lazy jacks, enough to gather and contain the sail right out to the clew (I have 4). 2) full battens on sliders or cars, better controlled flaking of the sail, less friction down (Tides Marine StrongTrack is KISS). 3) move the lazy jack halyard off the mast and onto the spreader, you will open the throat, better shape the bag for recovery and just generally make the whole thing work better. (Make sure your spreader can take the not inconsiderable load). I rarely do anything more than unzip the bag, attach the halyard, and drop the lazy jack halyards a foot to open the bag to 2-3 feet and create the kind of boom tray that makes the bag system work like a dream.
I produced a series of testimonial videos for Forespar with Leisurefurl customers. They were not compensated except for a hat. All 6 owners were very happy with their Leisurefurls. I found the Swan 53 owners comments quite interesting. Here is a compilation video and the extended interview with the Swan 53 owners. You can find the other 5 interviews on youtube.
Found out the mini-blocks did not work well for this purpose. They would twist and jam since the line is slack most of the time. I will use low friction rings instead. FYI
Update: the Quantum clamshell cover has worked well at 1/2 of a season. It clearly uses better engineering and materials than the 20 year-old one it replaced. The articulating batten pockets also help, reducing loads on the sail track and helping the sail fall into the bag.
No problem fouling when hoisting or dropping. Of course, I have had practice with lazy jacks. And, I loosen the jack lines before raising or lowering the sail; about 6" as recommended by the Quantum guy.
The train attachment for the zipper didn't work. The main fouled it when it dropped. I just made a longer pull with an aluminum shackle on the end which I move though the jack lines as I zip it up and clip off when unzipped. Works fine.
One change I will make is to add a jack line to the very front of the cover to help hold it up when I am zipping up that last foot or so.
So, overall, satisfied with the mainsail handling improvement. There is some learning curve but not huge. And, expect to fine-tune it to your particular boat and equipment.
No problem fouling when hoisting or dropping. Of course, I have had practice with lazy jacks. And, I loosen the jack lines before raising or lowering the sail; about 6" as recommended by the Quantum guy.
The train attachment for the zipper didn't work. The main fouled it when it dropped. I just made a longer pull with an aluminum shackle on the end which I move though the jack lines as I zip it up and clip off when unzipped. Works fine.
One change I will make is to add a jack line to the very front of the cover to help hold it up when I am zipping up that last foot or so.
So, overall, satisfied with the mainsail handling improvement. There is some learning curve but not huge. And, expect to fine-tune it to your particular boat and equipment.
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