Maine cruise

Roger Long · Jul 22, 2009

Boat US and SeaTow have started programs to buy toggles for lobstermen

Next time, try this:

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/Pots.htm

I've never had to call for help or use the Hooknife and my boat is about as bad a snagger as there is, other than the ones with winged keels.

It's not just Jerico bay. There are toggles all over the coast and they become more common as the tide range increases. East of Rockland, it will be rare to see a buoy without one. You may just not have noticed because it is much more common now to use a pot buoy (not always the same color) as a toggle instead of the small round floats.

It can be a real puzzle but here is a hint. The toggle will be held by the weight and drag of the line so it will bob and dip as the waves go by. The buoy just lies quietly on the water at the end of the short length of line between. Look for pairs of buoys, one lively and one quiet. The toggle lengths will be similar and all laying out in the same direction so your eye will quickly pick up the pattern.

Be most careful in strong current as toggles will be pulled under and the cross line then tight and close to the surface. Also watch closely for buoys unusually close together. These are usually ones that are tangled and their lines will thus be tight and close to the surface. 4 out of 5 that I have snagged have been tangled pairs.

Quoddy · Jul 22, 2009

Toggles and Boat US

Is the toggle rigged on the main warp at a distance from the surface so that at low tide the warp is held straight up and therefore at low tide there is near surface warp between the two buoys and at high tide the toggle is under the surface? The other day I though I saw a buoy and toggle at high tide.

The other question I had was, will Boat US help you with entanglement as part of the towing insurance program or is the help a pay for time spent service at 200$ an hour?

Roger Long · Jul 22, 2009

Quoddy said:
Is the toggle rigged on the main warp at a distance from the surface so that at low tide the warp is held straight up and therefore at low tide there is near surface warp between the two buoys and at high tide the toggle is under the surface?

The toggle helps keep the line from lying on the bottom and being carried around by currents to snag on rocks. Sometimes the toggles are under at high tide but not always. Lobstermen are in a hurry and move their gear often so the rope lengths are often approximate. They don't have time to measure the warp lengths every time they change water depths.

The whale mandated conversion to sinking line will increase the number of toggles that are standard buoys since the lines need more support to keep them off the bottom. Matching paint jobs on toggles and buoys should also become more common as they make the conversion. I noticed a much higher proportion of matched pairs this year than last.

Generally, the greater the tide range, the longer the distance between toggle and buoy.

There was a lot of talk a few years ago that Casco Bay lobstermen were putting railroad spikes on their warps, obstensibly to sink them and make boat entanglement less likely. Toggles are not critical at the tide range of this area. The real reason was that the spike would beat up the bottom of any power yacht that blithly ran over a pot and make the owner more careful the next time. Urban legend is that one boat sank after having a hole beaten in the bottom.

Gail R · Jul 22, 2009

Hey, I think we've stayed in that same slip in Camden! Looks awful familiar!

Yeah the toggles and pots in Jericho Bay are brutal aren't they? Same with Isle Au Haut Bay (just to the south). That's the only place we've ever caught one on the prop. It stopped the engine and had us drifting toward some ledges outside Duck Harbor and we had to cut it (yeah shame on us).. We hip tied the dinghy to the stern quarter and used the power from the 2 HP outboard to ferry ourselves into the harbor, where our friends' kid dove and freed the buoy, which had become wedged between the hull and the prop shaft.

If you watch them long enough, you can get a pretty good idea what the current is doing to them, but it does take a fair amount of practice. It's not at all unusual for the toggles, and even the main buoys, to be pushed under by current. I HATE having to run the motor through places like that.

It seems the last couple of times we've gone through Jericho Bay, the wind was cranking and there was pea-suop fog -- an unusual combination.

Glad you had a good trip!

Edited to clarify, We hate motoring through places like that!

Sailing's not a problem!

NotCook · Jul 22, 2009

Not having sailed in or around Maine yet, but looking forward to it, I'd like to see some photos of what you guys are talking about, both the bouys and toggles, and some of the patterns, and how you negotiate them.

I was caught in a couple of lobster pots on our anchor chain in the spring of 03, when we had to anchor in a storm at the top of the Chesapeake. As we hauled the anchor up, it was severely knotted with multiple lines, out of reach from the bow pulpit. I hated to, but I had to cut the lines. I wish I had one of those hook knives then! It took me an hour of dragging to get free, imperiled all the while. I followed the hook knife link on the Lobster Pot link, but the site is registered as a security risk site...

Beautiful photo. I hope to add one of us in that same spot sometime ahead. Thanks for sharing. Got more photos to share? I envy you guys in that area of the country. Such beautiful and picturesque sites.

Roger Long · Jul 22, 2009

NotCook said:
Got more photos to share?

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/BoatIndex.htm

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3537&id=1846284215&l=ea00c0b8a6

Maine Sail · Jul 22, 2009

Cutting buoys

As an ex-commercial lobsterman I can say with 100% certainty that I would much rather have you cut one of my pot buoys then to drag it across six other strings causing a massive tangle that myself and six other guys will now need to spend a few hours untangling and fixing. We then usually needed hundreds of feet of new line that we had to cut out of the tangle.

When strings of traps are laid out by lobsterman they are all laid in one direction depending upon the local you are in. In one bay it could be North to South and in another East to West. In Jericho I believe it is N to S.

They do this so they never lay across another string of traps on the bottom. For every pot buoy you see there are usually six to ten traps connected to it on the bottom.

When sailboats snag a pot on a shaft or rudder, and think they are doing a favor by trying to get it off without cutting it, they usually not and only making it worse.

Wire traps are very light weight and dragging ten of them is no problem for a boat with sails up or one in wind and current. Often times what happens is the boat drifts, and drags the the string across a few others. This makes a HUGE, HUGE mess!!

I used to run pot buoys on both ends of my string, as most all fisherman do. Not once did I ever loose both ends at the same time. Replacing a pot buoy is FAR cheaper than loosing 300 feet of warp to a tangle and the time involved in re-rigging a string..

Other commercial guys may not feel this way but that is my take as someone who used to do this for a living. Every time I was in a tangle I was wishing my buoy or someone elses was cut rather than dragged.

As far as toggles go the old excuse is that they are used to keep the line from tangling the bottom or a rock. This is pure BS!! This excuse is worn out and is not even close to why they actually use them. Most fisherman use them out of habit & history and because the more they use them the more pot buoys they lose due to line cuts. It is a self fulfilling/defeating idea. If they used no toggles as they do in Casco Bay they would lose a LOT less pot buoys. Sadly old habits die hard and fishermen are a stale & crusty old bunch whom are also very, very resistant to change. They keep using toggles so that when the main pot buoy gets cut they can still boat hook the toggle.

If you want to see just how much BS the "keep the line off the bottom theory is" just note how many of the toggles are still floating & laying rather flat on the surface at high tide. By "theory" that toggle should be 10-14 feel below the surface at high tide. I have actually argued against the use of these toggles, from a boater safety standpoint and as an ex-commercial fisherman, to my state Senator, but he was unwilling to submit a bill to ban them. There is ZERO legitimate reason for their use, they way they are currently used, and they only lead to more pot buoys being cut off. Thus the fisherman think they are a good idea and the viscious circle begins again..

Far less pot buoys are cut off in areas where they don't use them. In my thousands & thousands of pulls, without toggles, I never once had a line snag the bottom. Toggles are pure BS!

Almost forgot: Maine Coastal Photos (LINK)

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Maine Sail · Jul 22, 2009

Avoiding Lobster Pots & Lobstermen

Here are a few tips on how to deal with lobster pots.

#1 ALWAYS try to pass to the down current, down wind or down tide side of the pot. Never intentionally pass above a lobster pot unless you absolutely know you have the room to do so! They have an uncanny way of letting you know which way is up current, wind or tide and which way is down. Follow the stick or the wake!

This one is pointing or angled towards "down tide" so you'll pass to where the stick leans or points. This is about a 1.5 knot current at the mouth of Penobscot Bay and well off Vinalhaven and Northhaven Islands. We were miles from the nearest land yet Pen Bay has HUGE amounts of water to spill and the currents can run miles out to sea.. NEVER EVER intentionally pass a pot like this to the up tide or up current side!!!

#2 Wear polarized sunglasses!!! My daughter had grabbed my Maui Jim's and got "snack goo" all over them. Rather than clean them I stupidly grabbed my "guest" pair of sunglasses, a non-polarized pair of Ray Ban's.

As you can see we almost hit this pot that was pulled under by the tidal current! My maneuver was late because I never saw it until the absolute last second. At that point I had no choice but to turn hard stbd and pass to the up-current side which as you can see could have been very dangerous. Again, WEAR POLARIZED SUNGLASSES! You will see these submerged pots well before you will with non-polarized glasses. My camera had a polarizing filter so I snapped that as we passed.

#3 just because it's calm does not mean the pots are not still trying to tell you something. Current & tide still exists even in flat glass conditions. Note the direction of the "sticks"...

#4 It may be calm but this pot has a decent current flowing by it. Just look at the "wake" made by the buoy..

I passed too close to a lobster guy and he was swearing at me and really pissed how do I avoid pissing these guys off?

Look for his or her "colors" then spot his/her pots on the water and as a courtesy, and for your own safety, these guys are cowboys, get away from them as the boat is likely moving to the next pot that matches the displayed colors!

Lobstermen are required to display their "colors" or one of their own pot buoys mounted up high on the boat so it can be seen.
Note the pot buoy above the radome:

Note the "colors" on the port side wheel house roof:

Note the "colors" laying on the wheel house roof behind the spot light & hanging dead center also look on the water and you'll see two more of his/her pots.. stay away from them:

Pot buoy/colors located on stern end port side of wheel house roof:

wanttosail · Jul 22, 2009

Very informative and interesting pictures, thanks

Roger Long · Jul 22, 2009

Maine Sail said:
As an ex-commercial lobsterman I can say with 100% certainty that I would much rather have you cut one of my pot buoys then to drag it across six other strings ...

I greatly appreciate this insight. I so far haven't felt that I dragged any of the buoys I picked up any appreciable distance but it's usually happened in calm weather and I get the sails down pretty quickly.

However, I'll be quicker to use the hook knife now if I'm in a tight spot or if there is a lot of wind / current.

One nice thing about my method though, it's a good feeling to see the intact gear drifting away in the water and know that there isn't a cut off piece still hanging on the prop to disable the engine the next time you start it.

BTW (you know, I'm sure, but for the others) when you first start your engine after a pot clearing event, keep the throttle full down and just bump it with the starter in both forward and reverse. If it is fouled, the result won't be as hard to dislodge if it doesn't have the force of the firing diesel behind it.

Tim R. · Jul 22, 2009

This is why I carry a wetsuit. Sometimes you have to go in the water. We were racing on a friend's boat last October and I had to dive in to clear a pot off the prop(just looped when we sailed past). No wet suit. Quick in and out and a shot of Bourbon waiting for me poured by the captain himself.

Bad Obsession · Jul 22, 2009

Crab Pots in the Chesapeake Bay region are a pain too. They are all over the place and they also tend to wander into channels. I don't like sailing at night because of these things.

When you are sailing in regions with crab pots the best thing to do be careful of them and try your best to figure out the pattern to them. When the waterman lays them out he strings them along with the boat in a general direction.

Either way, they are all over the place here and they are a pain. This past spring the pound nets were everywhere as well and they are marked by floating markers.

Gail R · Jul 22, 2009

Tim R. said:
This is why I carry a wetsuit. Sometimes you have to go in the water. We were racing on a friend's boat last October and I had to dive in to clear a pot off the prop(just looped when we sailed past). No wet suit. Quick in and out and a shot of Bourbon waiting for me poured by the captain himself.

Good captain! We, too, carry a wetsuit. We also have a very long boathook. Couldn't figure out why such a ridiculously long boathook came with the boat until the first time we hooked a pot sailing. It reaches precisely to the bottom of the rudder so we can push the pott off.

I think we've only caught a pot while motoring once in the 12 years we've had our boat. Thanks, Maine Sail, we don't feel as badly now about cutting that line. Occasionally, we'll catch one at the rudder post sailing, and the boat hook does the trick (if they don't come off by themselves first).

Maine cruise

All U Get

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Attachments

Roger Long

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Quoddy

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Roger Long

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Gail R

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NotCook

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Roger Long

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Maine Sail

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Maine Sail

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wanttosail

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Roger Long

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All U Get

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Tim R.

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Bad Obsession

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Gail R

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