Here is a picture...I hope I did it right, of the base of the mast of my new old boat. The main halyard is led to the cockpit through that small block. The first time I raised the sail the mast plate bent. The whole thing seems wrong to me. The PO did this and I don't believe ever tried it. I have replaced the block with a much larger one, but where it is secured is the worse problem. Any suggestions?
Main Halyard led aft
- Thread starter ehh
- Start date
What kind of boat do you have? It appears you may have an external Halyard running down the front of you mast - is that correct? Try getting an over-sized- oblong shackle that will allow for the halyard block to clear the mast. Or install a deck organizer off to the port side of your mast. Then your halyard should come off the base of the mast at a 90degree angle (or close to) the direct back towards your cockpit. Some additional pictures would be better.
- Rob
- Rob
you may need to put a turning block on the port side of the deck in line with the block to releave some of the direct pull going aft most i have seen are creating a 45 digree turn from the block and then aft....i think it is called a organizer block
That's not really kosher because you are introducing bending strains that the shackle and block were not intended for. However, you'll probably get away with it.
Where does the halyard exit the mast? It looks like it is coming from the starboard side and then down to the forward port corner. Then where does it lead? Is it because there is a winch on port and not on starboard?
If it does exit the starboard side then it should stay on starboard. The block should be connected to that mast plate, on the aft/starboard corner. Then 45 degrees to a deck organizer and back to a winch mounted on the starboard side of companionway. Here's a picture but going to port.
P.S. a clutch is a nice feature but a simple cleat will work.
If it does exit the starboard side then it should stay on starboard. The block should be connected to that mast plate, on the aft/starboard corner. Then 45 degrees to a deck organizer and back to a winch mounted on the starboard side of companionway. Here's a picture but going to port.
P.S. a clutch is a nice feature but a simple cleat will work.
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I could put a shackle and block there that would never break. My main concern is that the plate will bend up and damage the mast.
Ed has a good point about the side of the mast the halyard exits. Moving the block so that it attaches at the rear of the mast base would help to eliminate the severe angle the block is now in. Also, the size of the halyard appears to be far too big. A smaller line diameter will create far less friction in the system reducing the loading.
The halyard goes over the top of the mast from the rear (obviously) going forward over the starboard side. Originally it used the winch on the starboard side of the mast. At least that is how it appears. The PO led the halyard back on the port side because the chartplotter is mounted on the starboard side of the cabin. He put a winch on the port side on the cabin and led the halyard back that way.
You're right about the halyard size. Halyard is supposed to be 10mm. This one is well over that. Maybe even 5/8. For what reason I can't imagine. He must have done this work himself. I hope a rigger wouldn't have anyway.
I am tempted to put on a proper size halyard and go back to using the winch on the mast. I'm not sure that this mess is fixable.
You're right about the halyard size. Halyard is supposed to be 10mm. This one is well over that. Maybe even 5/8. For what reason I can't imagine. He must have done this work himself. I hope a rigger wouldn't have anyway.
I am tempted to put on a proper size halyard and go back to using the winch on the mast. I'm not sure that this mess is fixable.
reasons NOT to lead halyard aft
You might want to go back to the mast mounted winch. I routed all control lines to the cockpit on my 34' Oday except the main halyard for two reasons.
1) the reef line tack ring still required me to go to the mast to reef so it was faster to have the halyard and reef line together
2) more importantly, running the halyard to the deck greatly changes where the forces are applied. The mast and winch should be fine with the loads, evidently your deck plate is not. Even through-bolting a block changes the load, now you are pulling up on the deck. Probably ok with a deck stepped mast but you need backing plates for the bolts. My mast is keel stepped and I didn't want to pull up on the deck with several hundred pounds or more of force.
Final thought - the diameter of your block looks too small to work well under load.
Good luck.
You might want to go back to the mast mounted winch. I routed all control lines to the cockpit on my 34' Oday except the main halyard for two reasons.
1) the reef line tack ring still required me to go to the mast to reef so it was faster to have the halyard and reef line together
2) more importantly, running the halyard to the deck greatly changes where the forces are applied. The mast and winch should be fine with the loads, evidently your deck plate is not. Even through-bolting a block changes the load, now you are pulling up on the deck. Probably ok with a deck stepped mast but you need backing plates for the bolts. My mast is keel stepped and I didn't want to pull up on the deck with several hundred pounds or more of force.
Final thought - the diameter of your block looks too small to work well under load.
Good luck.
You might want to go back to the mast mounted winch. I routed all control lines to the cockpit on my 34' Oday except the main halyard for two reasons.
1) the reef line tack ring still required me to go to the mast to reef so it was faster to have the halyard and reef line together
2) more importantly, running the halyard to the deck greatly changes where the forces are applied. The mast and winch should be fine with the loads, evidently your deck plate is not. Even through-bolting a block changes the load, now you are pulling up on the deck. Probably ok with a deck stepped mast but you need backing plates for the bolts. My mast is keel stepped and I didn't want to pull up on the deck with several hundred pounds or more of force.
Final thought - the diameter of your block looks too small to work well under load.
Good luck.
1) the reef line tack ring still required me to go to the mast to reef so it was faster to have the halyard and reef line together
2) more importantly, running the halyard to the deck greatly changes where the forces are applied. The mast and winch should be fine with the loads, evidently your deck plate is not. Even through-bolting a block changes the load, now you are pulling up on the deck. Probably ok with a deck stepped mast but you need backing plates for the bolts. My mast is keel stepped and I didn't want to pull up on the deck with several hundred pounds or more of force.
Final thought - the diameter of your block looks too small to work well under load.
Good luck.
That is all true. Plus the outhaul is forward too. Plus there are now three sets of bolts coming through the cabin roof to bash our brains out with. We'd be rid of them. I would hate to see all that work and money wasted but that may be how it ends up.
I ran all of my halyards and topping life internal to the mast. Just a comment. I learned many, many years ago that all mainsail halyard/topping lift should be located on the Starboard side of the mast and all headsail halyards should be located on the Port side of the mast! I've owned 6 sailboats, both new and used and they have all been rigged like stated above. Who made that decision? Am I right or wrong?
First, it's an external halyard. There is no "exit".
Second, you need a minmum of two blocks. The one at the base is fine... the shackle is incorrectly attached though... the pin should be on the block side.
The line should be directed 90 degrees out to the side(this will prevent bending the plate)... to the SECOND block which wil turn it another 90 degrees aft for a straight run to the winch.. one option would be this cheek block:
But the preferred choice is deck organizer... here's one that would allow you to bring another line aft, along with the main.
Also, you need a fairlead to raise the line up over the cabin for a clean run to the winch.
Finally...... the halyard's cleat should be mounted a foot or so in front of the winch. The least expensive solution is a clam, or Vee, cleat:
next in price......... the cam cleat
and most expensive... the rope clutch.. this garhaurer model is the most reasonably priced... around $55.00
Now..... to address your biggest ojection. Protruding bolts inside the cabin roof. Use shorter bolts, or cut them off, and fasten with cap nuts.
Second, you need a minmum of two blocks. The one at the base is fine... the shackle is incorrectly attached though... the pin should be on the block side.
The line should be directed 90 degrees out to the side(this will prevent bending the plate)... to the SECOND block which wil turn it another 90 degrees aft for a straight run to the winch.. one option would be this cheek block:
But the preferred choice is deck organizer... here's one that would allow you to bring another line aft, along with the main.
Also, you need a fairlead to raise the line up over the cabin for a clean run to the winch.
Finally...... the halyard's cleat should be mounted a foot or so in front of the winch. The least expensive solution is a clam, or Vee, cleat:
next in price......... the cam cleat
and most expensive... the rope clutch.. this garhaurer model is the most reasonably priced... around $55.00
Now..... to address your biggest ojection. Protruding bolts inside the cabin roof. Use shorter bolts, or cut them off, and fasten with cap nuts.
Here is a little more detail on what is aft. I saw the backwards shackle and fixed that when I put on the bigger block. I suppose that putting a new block at 90 degrees from the mast is the appropriate solution. I'm not sure that I will do it now though. I would need to move some of the hardware already there plus putting in the new block. I don't think leading the halyard to the cockpit really buys me enough. But we'll see. The first thing will be a new 3/8 inch halyard.
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All you need is a cheek block or deck organizer to turn the halyard aft without it binding up on the mast. Your problem is that the line puts an unnatural strain on the mast plate because the previous owner tried to cut the corner and avoid installing a proper turning block to get the line around the mast... Also...... it is highly likeley that the mast is supported by a beam encased in the cabin top that runs athwartship. You could probably just use self tapping fasteners directly into this beam (or metal plate) rather than long bolts washers and nuts to install the proper block.
When I ran the halyards aft on my boat, I had stainless steel plates made to attach the blocks to. The plates were 3/16" 316L stainless steel that were bent in a 70-ton brakepress. You can see the plates, which are bolted to the mast step in this photo:
Given the forces required to bend the plate, I sincerely doubt that I'll ever have problems with the plate unbending under the force of the halyards.
Given the forces required to bend the plate, I sincerely doubt that I'll ever have problems with the plate unbending under the force of the halyards.
On my H-27 with 4 external halyards I made a 8"x 8" (approx) aluminium plate with a hole in each corner. I bent up the ends of the plate so it was shaped like a flat "U". I removed the mast shoe and put the u-shaped plate under the shoe and refastened it on the deck. Now I had a place for 4 blocks.
The port/starboard convention wasn't really a choice, but an obvious conclusion at one time. The main halyard exits the front of the mast. The winch on the starboard side would lead "up" on the forward side. It becomes the main halyard. The jib halyard comes down the back side, so it has to go to the port winch (which leads "up" on the aft side). Internal halyards, of course, make all this passe.
Like many conventions borne of practical roots, it has stuck. My little Lightning, no winches and internal halyards, follows it as well.
Harry
I think that the mast plate on my boat may just be inadequate. Strange since everything else about this boat is doubly strong. I don't know if the mast plate is something original or not. I need to take the mast down at some point so maybe I could replace it with something better.