Maiden Sailing questions/comments

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K

Kevin

Last weekend was the first sail in my O'day 23. Having taking a US Sailing class in Flying Juniors, this was also the first time sailing in a larger boat.

The good news...it was nice (hot) weather and we didn't sink or otherwise have any major issues. The air was light and good for a novice to get out in.

A few comments & questions:

1.) I'm definitely not a trailer sailer...getting the mast up, trailering, etc. is a big pain...especially in 95 degree weather. I am mooring the boat at my inlaws lake place in Lake Monticello, SC.

2.) The Hood 705 Sea Furler I have is a piece of crap and only furled about 30% of the jib. Hence, it's now just a big forstay.

2.) My new tiller is scraping the top of the transom. The people who sailed with me this weekend tended to rest their hand on the end of the tiller and push down until it rested on the transom.

3.) Boom vang. Do I really "need" one?

4.) The boat came with a 25 year old Suzuki DT9.9 outboard. I got it serviced last week and it died on us many times this weekend. I'm considering getting a new Tohatsu 6hp (Ultra long shaft) to replace it. Any other outboard suggestions?

5.) The leech of my mainsail was luffing/flutter a lot over the weekend. How can I fix this?

6.) I put the sails in the cabin. Is it OK to leave them in there in hot weather?


Thanks,

Kevin
 
J

Joe

O'Day 23 answers

Kevin,
I can't help you on the Hood furler as I'm not familiar with that brand. I'm relatively new to furlers anyway.

As for the tiller; You may be able to lower the pintles on the rudder head to the lower hole. In other words, just take the pintles off the head and make the lower hole on the head the top hole for the pintles. Then place the rudder with the pintles on, into the gudgeons for a dry run. If it fits OK, then go ahead and drill the two new lower holes for the Pintles. This is what I had to do for my new tiller and I talked to Rudy before I did it. He said that raising the rudder head would have no ill effect on the rudder performance and told me to "Go for it."

The boom vang: Boom vangs are great for going downwind. They give you more speed by flattening the sail. As you gain experience, you'll use the boom vang. You won't need it going upwind, but it's great for downwind, and that's when you're going to want to break it out and use it.

The outboard: If you're lake sailing, a 6 HP will work but you may need to go to a transom bracket rated for the weight of the new 4 strokes, which are heavier than the 2 strokes, not to mention the torque comparisons. If you plan on sailing the bays and rivers with tidal currents, I'd get an 8 Hp long shaft for this boat. I'm a Johnson man myself, but since they stopped making them, I'd go for an 8 Hp Evenrude with a charging system.

The Mainsail leech: If you have a Leech line, just take up on it until the sail stops fluttering, and snub it off.

Sails in the Cabin: It's a whole lot better to stow the sails in the cabin in the bags than to leave them uncovered on the boom. I would buy a new sail cover, then you won't have to stow the sail. I just bought one off Rudy, and I love it. It's quick and easy to put on, and I may use it about 4 or 5 times a day when I'm on a cruise. If my sail comes down for longer the 15 minutes, the sail cover goes on. A sail without a UV cover will only last about three seasons.
 
M

Mike

My 2 cents

Some excellent advice from Joe; I say that because I agree with everything he said. My two cents (adjusted for inflation): the bottom of my tiller scrapes against the top of my transom too. Joe's solution sounds interesting, but too much work for me. I did a very low tech, easy solution. I bought some of those felt pads that are used for furniture feet on hardwood floors. Two big ones on the underside of the tiller where it rubs against the transom. Problem: Solved.

For the outboard issue: unless you want to buy a used two-stroke, plan on replacing both the bracket and the "spacer block" (that hunk of angled fiberglass that sits between the bracket and the transom). Nobody makes small two stroke engines anymore. So if you buy new, you will have to get a four stroke, which means you need to get a bracket sized for a four stroke (as Joe points out, the OEM Oday brackets can't take the weight and torque of a four stroke engine); the four stroke brackets have a wider footprint than the spacer block's dimensions, which means you will have to somehow augment or replace that too. And since the spacer block is not an off the shelf item, you will have to custom make something. The archives of this site are full of examples of photos and descriptions from those who have done just that.

Boom vang: I owned my Oday 23 for six years before I installed a vang. It really does help quite a bit going downwind. I also find it useful going upwind; because the 23 doesn't have a traveller, it makes sailshaping a little easier if I have to ease the sheets in high winds.
 
J

Jeff S

tiller rub

i purchased a 26 Oday some years ago and still own it. PO had a similar problem with tiller rubbing on the transom,real simple solution and it worked fine. He put a plastic bottle top beneath the wooden tiller and top of the rudder,changing the angle and raising it high enoughto miss the transom. As I said real simple.
How much foer the sail cover Joe I need a new one as well.
 
K

Kevin

outboard

Ughh..so it's not easy to just buy my Tohatsu 6hp at onlineoutboards.com and slap it on?!?! (I ordered it today)

The Tohatsu weights 55 lbs.

Could I get away with just getting a new motor bracket and keeping the same old "spacer block?"

This sounds like a big project I wasn't prepared for.

Kevin
 
C

Chuck R

Thohatsu outboards.

I have the 5 HP Nissan 2003 year model 4-stroke. 4-5-6 HP models I believe are the same motor. Tohatsu makes the Mercury, Nissan, & the Gamefisher for Sears. Just different Paint colors and decals. Not sure what O'Day uses for the motor bracket as my boat had originally a Honda 5 HP 4-stroke. The bracket and spacer block seem very adequate for the motor. Also the power pushes the 222 to Hull speed of 6.8 mph.

Every outboard I've ever owned was a 2 stroke, so getting used to the 4-stroke is a little different. Be sure to read the directions and the owners Manuel when you get it. There is one side only you can lay them on, otherwise the crankcase oil runs in to the combustion chamber if you lay it the wrong way. Be sure to use a fuel stabilizer in the gas as they hardly use any fuel. I took my six gallon tank off the boat because I could not even use 4 gallons the whole season up here on Erie. Using the standard 3 gallon tank allows me to add fresh gas in August. During winter storage be sure to run the gas out of the carb so as to avoid getting gum in the lines an fuel pump.. It made a big difference at idle when I replaced the thermostat this year.

Good luck, I like my 4-stroke, they are much quieter too.
 
J

Joe

Sail cover

Sail covers run around a couple of hundred, Jeff. I paid around $350 for my other sail cover when I had it custom made back in the 1990s, and this sail cover is far better and easier to put on than my old one.

One of my friends had the same problem with his tiller rubbing the top of the transom on his O'Day 25, and he installed a piece of 1/8" white Starboard for the bottom of the tiller to rub on. He liked it, but it sure didn't appeal to me when I delivered his boat all the way up from Cape Cod Canal area to our yacht club in Dighton Ma., a few years ago. It's all in what you like, I guess.

Mike,
Moving the pintles down and drilling holes into the aluminum rudder head using the lower holes of each pintle, is a piece of cake. I know that you could do it. I'm a hack at doing stuff like that, and I did it. Check out the picture of my rudder and you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
J

Joe

Sail cover and tiller rub

Sail covers run around a couple of hundred, Jeff. I paid around $350 for my other sail cover when I had it custom made back in the 1990s, and this sail cover is far better and easier to put on than my old one.

One of my friends had the same problem with his tiller rubbing the top of the transom on his O'Day 25, and he installed a piece of 1/8" white Starboard for the bottom of the tiller to rub on. He liked it, but it sure didn't appeal to me when I delivered his boat all the way up from Cape Cod Canal area to our yacht club in Dighton Ma., a few years ago. It's all in what you like, I guess.

Mike,
Moving the pintles down and drilling holes into the aluminum rudder head using the lower holes of each pintle, is a piece of cake. I know that you could do it. I'm a hack at doing stuff like that, and I did it. Check out the picture of my rudder and you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
J

Joe

Outboard bracket block

Kevin,
If you have to replace the bracket to support the weight of the new engine as well as the block. You could build a new block out of fir like my friend Ray did on his O'Day 26. All you need to do is take all the angles off the old block and build a new larger block, and fiberglass it. Ray's bracket and block came out pretty good and he did it himself. Like Mike has pointed out, you're going to have to get something custom made because no one has these blocks. I think I'll just hang on to my two stroke 1999 Johnson Sailmaster and when that dies on me, I'll build a long sculling oar. Hey, Lin and Larry Pardey did it on their 24' cutter Seraffyn, and they toured the world with this boat with no engine.
Joe
 
M

Mike

It's not just the weight

Kevin: Can you use an old two stroke bracket to hold a new four stroke engine?I think it is a question of how much risk you are willing to accept. Most of the people I asked this question had the same answer: a four stroke weighs more, but just as importantly, it generates more torque than a two stroke. That extra power puts a strain on the bracket. Any good bracket can handle a 55 lb. engine (at least it can when new), but if that bracket is over five years old, there is no way it was designed to cope with the stress of a four stroke engine. My assumptions when I was going through this same exercise about five years ago were: my bracket is old and tired, and it was made to handle two strokes up to 90 lbs. in weight. If I were to buy a four stroke engine, I realized that the optimum solution would be to get a four stroke-rated bracket, which would also mean replacing the spacer block (because the four stroke bracket footprint didn't fit on the existing block). My other options as I saw them: buy a four stroke, but at least replace the existing bracket with the biggest, beefiest two stroke-rated bracket I could find that fit my spacer block; or just buy a new two stroke engine and replace the bracket with an appropriately sized and rated unit.

I really didn't want the big "rebuild the spacer block" project; I don't have enough time to sail as it is, so I elminated that option from contention. I also was uncomfortable with using a two stroke bracket with a four stroke engine. I knew I would always worry if it was about to fail. That's my personal quirk, and I know others will disagree. I just don't know enough about torque and bracket specs to make an informed, calculated decision. I went with option three, a new two stroke engine and bracket. I went so far as to make sure that the bolt pattern for my new bracket fit the existing holes in the spacer block and transom. Like I said, I go for low tech and easy.

Unfortunately, you don't have option three anymore as the industry (I think prematurely) moved away from small two strokes about three years ago. You can do what others here have suggested they are going to do in the same situation: use a two stroke bracket with a four stroke engine and "be careful". If I were in your situation, I think I would measure or trace the footprint of my existing bracket and spacer block and go down to a chandlery to see what they have in the way of four stroke brackets. Maybe you will be surprised and find something that fits. Also, West Marine has a lot of brackets in their catalog. Even if they don't have the measurements printed in the catalog, their customer service people may be able to give you some help over the phone with measurements of the units they carry. One other idea: try Rudy at D&R Marine (his contact info is on this site under Links). He used to work at Oday and knows everything. I bought my replacement bracket from him; he knew that it would fit my spacer block and bolt holes. He may have a suggestion or info for you on a bracket that will be ok with your outboard. Good luck and let us know what happens.
 
C

Charles

Adapter Plate

I was in the same conundrum and took the approach of buying a Garelick 4 stroke bracket for my Yamaha. I fabricated an adapter plate that straddled the block. I picked up the original holes in the block to mount the plate and used outer holes to mount the outboard bracket. I ran this way on a 23 and now have a 26 with the same arrangement. The adapter plate ran me about $50 at a local machine shop.

Charles
 
C

Charles

Adapter Plate Drawing

Adapater plate drawing for those who are interested and do not want to reinvent the wheel.

Charles
 
C

Charles

Adapter Plate Drawing

Needed to finish sentence.....

For those who do not want to reinvent the wheel I would be glad to fax or email a copy of the drawing of the adapter plate. Just provide a telephone number or email.

Charles
 
K

Kevin

RE: adapter plate

That's great. I would like to see the adapter plate drawing.
Also...which motor bracket product ID did you get?

My email: kevinnichols (at) starklmc.com

I also emailed DR Marine. No response. I know, I know, I should have called.


Thanks,

Kevin
 
R

Recess

Request for plate design

Charles,

I would love to have that design. The boat I boat has a 10 hp Honda 4 stroke. The email is daveivymico@yahoo.com

Thank you very much.
 
A

Adirondack Bob

Adapter Plate Drawings

Ditto, Charles: I'd love the drawings, too, since I'm getting ready to replace the motor on my 23. Thanks!

Bob
ryagelski@verizon.net
 
C

Charles

Adapter Plate

I have started getting more interest in the adapter plate so I have uploaded the .pdf file into the resources PDF File upload/download.

Charles
 
K

Keith O'day 25

Sail cover

I just got a new sail cover also. At Leesailcovers . com It was 150 bucks and I am very happy with it.
 
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