I recently looked at a MacGregor 26 (1982)on a trailer with the idea buying it but was put off by the condition of the keel. It had a steel upper with a bolted on lead weignt. The connection was covered with some sort of rubber 'Bondo" which was badly damaged and peeling of to reveal lots of rust. What is the deal with these keels and was what I saw as big of a problem as it appeared to be? Whats up with these MacGregors anyway?
MacGregor Keels
- Thread starter Tim Cook
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Mac Keel
That sounds like a 25. None of the 26s that I know of have an iron keel. Check out the D or S model with water ballast
That sounds like a 25. None of the 26s that I know of have an iron keel. Check out the D or S model with water ballast
Probably a Mac 25
Tim, I believe the boat you saw was a 25. Although the 25 was made from '74 to '87, until '80 they were called Venture with an "F" hull designation. The MacGregor 25, from '80 to '87 has an "R" designation. The first 26 ("W" in HIN) wasn't built until the '87 (model year). The other give-away was the lead in the centerboard (often called a swing keel on the 25 because it actually provided significant righting moment like a fin keel). The 25 Centerboard weighs about 625LB and requires a winch to raise it. On the other hand, the 26 is water ballasted and the light centerboard can be lifted by hand. All MacGregors/Ventures with the weighted swing keel (including the '73 Venture 17 I owned) eventually have water leakage into the centerboard fiberglass shell. Once water attacks the steel post that supports the lead ballast, the fiberglass can no longer adhere to the rust. The fiberglass cracks and starts to fall away. Someone on this site should know where you can get a replacement swing keel or tell you how to rebuild the old one. The Mac 25 is lighter than the 26C when ballasted but can carry almost the same sail area making it a good bit faster (results may vary depending on skipper). The Mac 25 was the one inducted into the American Sailboat Hall of Fame Museum. (see Related link below) Happy sails *_/), MArk
Tim, I believe the boat you saw was a 25. Although the 25 was made from '74 to '87, until '80 they were called Venture with an "F" hull designation. The MacGregor 25, from '80 to '87 has an "R" designation. The first 26 ("W" in HIN) wasn't built until the '87 (model year). The other give-away was the lead in the centerboard (often called a swing keel on the 25 because it actually provided significant righting moment like a fin keel). The 25 Centerboard weighs about 625LB and requires a winch to raise it. On the other hand, the 26 is water ballasted and the light centerboard can be lifted by hand. All MacGregors/Ventures with the weighted swing keel (including the '73 Venture 17 I owned) eventually have water leakage into the centerboard fiberglass shell. Once water attacks the steel post that supports the lead ballast, the fiberglass can no longer adhere to the rust. The fiberglass cracks and starts to fall away. Someone on this site should know where you can get a replacement swing keel or tell you how to rebuild the old one. The Mac 25 is lighter than the 26C when ballasted but can carry almost the same sail area making it a good bit faster (results may vary depending on skipper). The Mac 25 was the one inducted into the American Sailboat Hall of Fame Museum. (see Related link below) Happy sails *_/), MArk
Get the lead out!
I owned a 1985 Mac 25 for about 6 years, selling it last summer. My boat has a cast iron keel with a bit of a bulb at the bottom end. It was all one piece cast iron with no lead. I have looked at a couple of other Mac 25's and the keel was similar to the one on my boat. I have not seen nor heard of a steel/lead combination keel. I suspect it may be modified or a home made replacement. I also had a 1971 Venture 222, and it also had a cast iron keel. Both of these were fresh water boats and corrosion of the keel was not an issue, even on the 25, which was kept in a slip all summer.
I owned a 1985 Mac 25 for about 6 years, selling it last summer. My boat has a cast iron keel with a bit of a bulb at the bottom end. It was all one piece cast iron with no lead. I have looked at a couple of other Mac 25's and the keel was similar to the one on my boat. I have not seen nor heard of a steel/lead combination keel. I suspect it may be modified or a home made replacement. I also had a 1971 Venture 222, and it also had a cast iron keel. Both of these were fresh water boats and corrosion of the keel was not an issue, even on the 25, which was kept in a slip all summer.
Steel and Lead on a Mac???
This is the iron keel on my '84 Mac 25. No fiberglass shell, no steel post and no lead. It is typical of all the 25s (Venture and Macs) that I've seen. The year and description you gave is wrong somewhere unless this was an unfortunate soul that lost his original keel and made a replacement himself. If the lifting cable breaks under load, very bad things can happen very quickly. I understand from this board that the cast iron ones are almost impossible to find. I read a discussion of making one out of sheets of plate steel once, sounds like what you saw.
This is the iron keel on my '84 Mac 25. No fiberglass shell, no steel post and no lead. It is typical of all the 25s (Venture and Macs) that I've seen. The year and description you gave is wrong somewhere unless this was an unfortunate soul that lost his original keel and made a replacement himself. If the lifting cable breaks under load, very bad things can happen very quickly. I understand from this board that the cast iron ones are almost impossible to find. I read a discussion of making one out of sheets of plate steel once, sounds like what you saw.
Whack Mac
I have a V-222 with the cast iron keel; its 1977 vintage and I'm pretty sure all Macs later than that have the one piece bare iron. All the Mac 25's I've seen have that; to my knowledge Mac didn't use lead. Once Mac instituted an improvement, they rarely looked back. Whatever you are seeing, its whack.
I have a V-222 with the cast iron keel; its 1977 vintage and I'm pretty sure all Macs later than that have the one piece bare iron. All the Mac 25's I've seen have that; to my knowledge Mac didn't use lead. Once Mac instituted an improvement, they rarely looked back. Whatever you are seeing, its whack.
Lead is dead! (or is it?)
I know most (if not all) of V/Mac 25's have a solid cast iron keel but most Ventures before 1974 had the steel/lead/fiberglass type as my V-17 did. There are many examples on the Net. One concerning a 71 V2-22 on "Related link" below. John, to say that "Once Mac instituted an improvement, they rarely looked back." is not consistant with the history of Roger MacGregor. Ever since Roger founded MacGregor while working on his MBA at Stanford, his aim has never been to produce the "best" boat but to produce the best selling boat for the target customer. That's one reason the dagger board has returned on the 26M. Not because the dagger is better than the center board (remember the dagger was replace by the cb on the 26C) but because the market asked for it. Who knows what the next Mac will look like?
I know most (if not all) of V/Mac 25's have a solid cast iron keel but most Ventures before 1974 had the steel/lead/fiberglass type as my V-17 did. There are many examples on the Net. One concerning a 71 V2-22 on "Related link" below. John, to say that "Once Mac instituted an improvement, they rarely looked back." is not consistant with the history of Roger MacGregor. Ever since Roger founded MacGregor while working on his MBA at Stanford, his aim has never been to produce the "best" boat but to produce the best selling boat for the target customer. That's one reason the dagger board has returned on the 26M. Not because the dagger is better than the center board (remember the dagger was replace by the cb on the 26C) but because the market asked for it. Who knows what the next Mac will look like?
lead - maybe, maybe not
Thats exactly my point, MArk. MacGregor did whatever they wanted, month to month. No documentation for future owners, no waiting till the next model year. What Tim needs to know here is that Macs (even a particular model) isn't necessarily defined by definite feature details. That they could lump very different changes over many years together under the V-222 label is very confusing. Lets just say their progression was 'uninhibited' in the pursuit of simplicity and functionality.
Thats exactly my point, MArk. MacGregor did whatever they wanted, month to month. No documentation for future owners, no waiting till the next model year. What Tim needs to know here is that Macs (even a particular model) isn't necessarily defined by definite feature details. That they could lump very different changes over many years together under the V-222 label is very confusing. Lets just say their progression was 'uninhibited' in the pursuit of simplicity and functionality.
It varies for sure
My 1973 V222 had a flat plate of iron or steel surrounded by fiberglass, no lead. It was an original. The fiberglass gave it shape and was what had to be repaired annually, as we did a lot of beachings for camping, hikes and picnics.
My 1973 V222 had a flat plate of iron or steel surrounded by fiberglass, no lead. It was an original. The fiberglass gave it shape and was what had to be repaired annually, as we did a lot of beachings for camping, hikes and picnics.
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