My boatyard fellow says the macerator is blown on my 2001 Hunter. He advises me the lifespan of one of these renders it not worth replacing, however, and that it would be more economical to just pump out two or three times per year. Your comment please.
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
If you don't use your tank any more often than
that, I tend to agree with him. Not because macerators necessarily have a short lifespan, but because lack of causes 'em to fail a LOT faster than regular use. That, and letting 'em run dry. But before I'd take his word that it's not worth replacing, does the motor run? It may just need a new impeller. Impeller replacement is a bit of a nasty job...he may just not want to do it. It's one thing to let waste accumulate in the tank till it's full over a reasonable length of time (a few weeks)...another to let it sit in the tank for months, 'cuz that's likely to result in a buildup of sludge on the bottom of the tank. So whether you replace the macerator or not, I recommend you pump or dump and rinse the tank out VERY thoroughly at least once a month. Btw...an electric diaphragm pump costs a bit more than a macerator, but can run dry without harm and doesn't suffer nearly as much from lack of use as impeller pumps do.
that, I tend to agree with him. Not because macerators necessarily have a short lifespan, but because lack of causes 'em to fail a LOT faster than regular use. That, and letting 'em run dry. But before I'd take his word that it's not worth replacing, does the motor run? It may just need a new impeller. Impeller replacement is a bit of a nasty job...he may just not want to do it. It's one thing to let waste accumulate in the tank till it's full over a reasonable length of time (a few weeks)...another to let it sit in the tank for months, 'cuz that's likely to result in a buildup of sludge on the bottom of the tank. So whether you replace the macerator or not, I recommend you pump or dump and rinse the tank out VERY thoroughly at least once a month. Btw...an electric diaphragm pump costs a bit more than a macerator, but can run dry without harm and doesn't suffer nearly as much from lack of use as impeller pumps do.
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RonD
Interesting ...
Peggie When you say "... because lack of (use) causes 'em to fail a LOT faster than regular use," how often should they be run to preserve the impeller? I typically only run mine a 2-3 times each season when I'm way out past the coastline limit. Generally before heading back into a harbor or anchorage. I find that it's a "run by your ear" sort of thing. It's fairly simple, but a gymnastic sort of procedure, to do solo: Close the through-hull at the head, open the one at the macerator, flick on the circuitbreaker -- the motor sound changes pitch when the tank is empty; about 3 minutes or so -- turn off the CB, and close the macerator through-hull. .... Regarding the "test question" about flushing the tank out, if you fill the tank with enough water to get it to back out of the vent hose won't that cause it to back into the toilet bowl too? My toilet-to-holding tank discharge vent loop is about the same height as the vent port. --Ron
Peggie When you say "... because lack of (use) causes 'em to fail a LOT faster than regular use," how often should they be run to preserve the impeller? I typically only run mine a 2-3 times each season when I'm way out past the coastline limit. Generally before heading back into a harbor or anchorage. I find that it's a "run by your ear" sort of thing. It's fairly simple, but a gymnastic sort of procedure, to do solo: Close the through-hull at the head, open the one at the macerator, flick on the circuitbreaker -- the motor sound changes pitch when the tank is empty; about 3 minutes or so -- turn off the CB, and close the macerator through-hull. .... Regarding the "test question" about flushing the tank out, if you fill the tank with enough water to get it to back out of the vent hose won't that cause it to back into the toilet bowl too? My toilet-to-holding tank discharge vent loop is about the same height as the vent port. --Ron
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Scott Blahnik
Re: impellor
You're right,Peggy, my guy won't do impellors.(The motor runs then dies out and the circuit breaker goes off.) He's an old salt who says he used to do them but what he would charge to do so and the length of time estimated before another replacement makes the whole endeavor moot. I'll pump out,as I have yet to have the experience to do so, then maybe take a look at the impellor (If i get up the nerve) Really, I feel better about pumping out anyway, from a enviromentalist point of view. Thanks mucho! Scott S/V Hello Dolly
You're right,Peggy, my guy won't do impellors.(The motor runs then dies out and the circuit breaker goes off.) He's an old salt who says he used to do them but what he would charge to do so and the length of time estimated before another replacement makes the whole endeavor moot. I'll pump out,as I have yet to have the experience to do so, then maybe take a look at the impellor (If i get up the nerve) Really, I feel better about pumping out anyway, from a enviromentalist point of view. Thanks mucho! Scott S/V Hello Dolly
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
When macerators sit
for long periods (or anything else that has a sealed electric motor), lubrication settles and ceases to provide much if any protection against corrosion. Start-up means a few seconds of dry or nearly dry friction till the oil recirculates, increasing wear on the motor. The impeller adds another element that doesn't profit for sitting. Rubber, neoprene and nitrile dry out from disuse...waste is sticky, so unless the tank is rinsed after each use, the impeller sticks to the inside of the housing...a salt water rinse is better than nothing, but that leaves salt in the impeller housing to dry and scratch the inside of it. A really STUCK impeller can break a vane the first time it's restarted after sitting for a long period..more often, a vane only cracks a little, so it works the first time, but the next time can break off a piece of the vane, and now you have a macerator that runs but doesn't move anything through it. In rare severe cases, the impeller can be stuck so tight to the housing that the motor burns out, and the whole macerator pump is toast. That only happens when the operator fails to pay any attention and just lets it run till he smells it overheating, though. More often, that's caused by letting an impeller fry by forgetting to turn it off after the tank is empty...it doesn't have to be a unit that's been sitting. Lack of use is harder on EVERYthing than constant use. As for your question about flushing out the tank...no, water will not overflow back toward the toilet. If the rate of flow into the tank is faster than it can flow out the vent, it'll just overflow back up the same hose it's going down--out the deck fitting, 'cuz it'll follow the path of least resistance.
for long periods (or anything else that has a sealed electric motor), lubrication settles and ceases to provide much if any protection against corrosion. Start-up means a few seconds of dry or nearly dry friction till the oil recirculates, increasing wear on the motor. The impeller adds another element that doesn't profit for sitting. Rubber, neoprene and nitrile dry out from disuse...waste is sticky, so unless the tank is rinsed after each use, the impeller sticks to the inside of the housing...a salt water rinse is better than nothing, but that leaves salt in the impeller housing to dry and scratch the inside of it. A really STUCK impeller can break a vane the first time it's restarted after sitting for a long period..more often, a vane only cracks a little, so it works the first time, but the next time can break off a piece of the vane, and now you have a macerator that runs but doesn't move anything through it. In rare severe cases, the impeller can be stuck so tight to the housing that the motor burns out, and the whole macerator pump is toast. That only happens when the operator fails to pay any attention and just lets it run till he smells it overheating, though. More often, that's caused by letting an impeller fry by forgetting to turn it off after the tank is empty...it doesn't have to be a unit that's been sitting. Lack of use is harder on EVERYthing than constant use. As for your question about flushing out the tank...no, water will not overflow back toward the toilet. If the rate of flow into the tank is faster than it can flow out the vent, it'll just overflow back up the same hose it's going down--out the deck fitting, 'cuz it'll follow the path of least resistance.
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Pat Spino, "Flying Colors"
Macerator problems
I have recently had to rebuild my macerator twice in one year. I finally called ITT (Jabsco/Par) and found that what I thought was good maintenance was, in fact, causing problems. My macerator is part of the electric head conversion kit. It macerates before the waste enters the holding tank. I would frequently add white vinegar (which is not a problem), baby oil (which is a problem), and, occasionally, bleach (also a problem). The tech at ITT said the baby oil and the bleach will cause the soft impeller to either swell (baby oil) or deteriorate (bleach). His recommendation was to use "Head Lube". I still add vinegar or bleach occasionally but not through the macerator. I add them via the deck pump-out fitting. Hope this helps, Pat
I have recently had to rebuild my macerator twice in one year. I finally called ITT (Jabsco/Par) and found that what I thought was good maintenance was, in fact, causing problems. My macerator is part of the electric head conversion kit. It macerates before the waste enters the holding tank. I would frequently add white vinegar (which is not a problem), baby oil (which is a problem), and, occasionally, bleach (also a problem). The tech at ITT said the baby oil and the bleach will cause the soft impeller to either swell (baby oil) or deteriorate (bleach). His recommendation was to use "Head Lube". I still add vinegar or bleach occasionally but not through the macerator. I add them via the deck pump-out fitting. Hope this helps, Pat
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Larry W.
macerator bummers
Scott; The motor is probably still good, but the pump part is shot. Replace the pump part, housing, impeller and chopper blade all at the same time; it comes in a kit and you don't have to mess with it, just undo four small bolts and replace the lower unit en masse. Before installing it, take the new impeller out of the housing and grease it with a little waterproof grease. Reassemble it, install it, and then every time you go to the boat, hit the switch for a second or two, just enough to turn the impeller in the housing. The grease will prevent dry run problems and it should last at least two seasons.
Scott; The motor is probably still good, but the pump part is shot. Replace the pump part, housing, impeller and chopper blade all at the same time; it comes in a kit and you don't have to mess with it, just undo four small bolts and replace the lower unit en masse. Before installing it, take the new impeller out of the housing and grease it with a little waterproof grease. Reassemble it, install it, and then every time you go to the boat, hit the switch for a second or two, just enough to turn the impeller in the housing. The grease will prevent dry run problems and it should last at least two seasons.
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Alan
Pump Out???
Just a thought. Why are you pumping your waste out to the enviornment? It would seem to me that having your waste pumped out at the marina where it can be treated would save you the worry of the macerator pump and save the ecology from having to deal with the contamination. I have been pushing for a bill to be passed that would REQUIRE pumping the holding tank BEFORE fuel can be purchased. If EVERY boat had its holding tank emptied at the fuel dock, just think how much cleaner our waterways would be.
Just a thought. Why are you pumping your waste out to the enviornment? It would seem to me that having your waste pumped out at the marina where it can be treated would save you the worry of the macerator pump and save the ecology from having to deal with the contamination. I have been pushing for a bill to be passed that would REQUIRE pumping the holding tank BEFORE fuel can be purchased. If EVERY boat had its holding tank emptied at the fuel dock, just think how much cleaner our waterways would be.
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
Through the deck pump out is useless, Pat
Your macerator is in the toilet...the tank is downstream of the toilet. So how would you expect anything you add to the tank through the deck pumpout fitting to get back into the toilet? Besides, only thing that vinegar is good for is dissolving sea water minerals in the head discharge hose. In an electric toilet, I have no idea what you expect baby oil OR "Head Lube" to do...there aren't any parts in an electric toilet that need lubrication. Bleach breaks down hoses, reducing their resistance to odor permeation. Waste standing in the the pumpout hose to the level in the tank already does a bang up job of doing that without any help from bleach. So as near as I can tell, all you're really doing is wasting baby oil and vinegar while destroying your tank pumpout hose. The ONLY thing you should be doing is flushing just one cup of white vinegar down the toilet once a week.
Your macerator is in the toilet...the tank is downstream of the toilet. So how would you expect anything you add to the tank through the deck pumpout fitting to get back into the toilet? Besides, only thing that vinegar is good for is dissolving sea water minerals in the head discharge hose. In an electric toilet, I have no idea what you expect baby oil OR "Head Lube" to do...there aren't any parts in an electric toilet that need lubrication. Bleach breaks down hoses, reducing their resistance to odor permeation. Waste standing in the the pumpout hose to the level in the tank already does a bang up job of doing that without any help from bleach. So as near as I can tell, all you're really doing is wasting baby oil and vinegar while destroying your tank pumpout hose. The ONLY thing you should be doing is flushing just one cup of white vinegar down the toilet once a week.
Good Luck Alan
Alan: Good luck. Most sailboat fuel up once or maybe twice a season. Don't think it's going to make much of a difference. Spend your time getting the municipal governments not to pump millions of gallons of waste into our bays and oceans and you will be the real hero. Then we need to work on all of the storm drains for the run off from the streets and agricutural sources from running into our stream, rivers, lakes and oceans. If every boat pumped overboard everyday for 5 years, they could not approach the waste that the municipal systems pump in a single day. PS: I am not disagreeing with your point. Just making a point that boaters are NOT the source of the problem.
Alan: Good luck. Most sailboat fuel up once or maybe twice a season. Don't think it's going to make much of a difference. Spend your time getting the municipal governments not to pump millions of gallons of waste into our bays and oceans and you will be the real hero. Then we need to work on all of the storm drains for the run off from the streets and agricutural sources from running into our stream, rivers, lakes and oceans. If every boat pumped overboard everyday for 5 years, they could not approach the waste that the municipal systems pump in a single day. PS: I am not disagreeing with your point. Just making a point that boaters are NOT the source of the problem.
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Pete
Alan/pumps out.
Alan, I would like to respectively tell you that we don't need any more laws. A law requiring a pump out befor you fuel ! Please stop with the new and improved laws !Just for information the town where I dock my boat has a "pump out boat service" that comes to your boat and pumps it out for FREE !Will come on a will call basis or on a preset weekly plan if you want. Let me suggest that before you pass another law that can't be enforced or won't be that you lobby for a service like this. It is very well accepted by everone in the area and has done more for the enviroment then most laws could do (my opion)Why not push for this type of service in your area !
Alan, I would like to respectively tell you that we don't need any more laws. A law requiring a pump out befor you fuel ! Please stop with the new and improved laws !Just for information the town where I dock my boat has a "pump out boat service" that comes to your boat and pumps it out for FREE !Will come on a will call basis or on a preset weekly plan if you want. Let me suggest that before you pass another law that can't be enforced or won't be that you lobby for a service like this. It is very well accepted by everone in the area and has done more for the enviroment then most laws could do (my opion)Why not push for this type of service in your area !
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Dave
Pete of Noank
Hey Pete of Noank How's it going? I'm not sure what your point is!! I suggest you take that Carolina Skiff and turn it into a pumpout boat and start yourself a service business. You can easily make 40 bucks an hour doing pumpouts assuming 4 an hour. Whenever that boat comes around people are clamoring for the service....when will free enterprise enter this picture and entrepreneurs decide this is a lucrative business? Then the government can go back to sleep while the "free market system" takes care of the problem. Next question is where do you pump out the carolina skiff? Out past the 3 mile limit where it is free? What a good winter to leave my boat in the water!!! best regards and say hi to everyone. dave
Hey Pete of Noank How's it going? I'm not sure what your point is!! I suggest you take that Carolina Skiff and turn it into a pumpout boat and start yourself a service business. You can easily make 40 bucks an hour doing pumpouts assuming 4 an hour. Whenever that boat comes around people are clamoring for the service....when will free enterprise enter this picture and entrepreneurs decide this is a lucrative business? Then the government can go back to sleep while the "free market system" takes care of the problem. Next question is where do you pump out the carolina skiff? Out past the 3 mile limit where it is free? What a good winter to leave my boat in the water!!! best regards and say hi to everyone. dave
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Les Murray
Great, another useless law
Alan, Before wasting your time (and our money), do some research first to get the facts. First, as Steve has pointed out, sailboats refuel maybe twice a year. Second, find out where most of the effluents in the waterways come from. You will find that the biggest sources are municipal water treatment systems and farm runoff. Boaters are a very small contributor to the problem. How would you enforce your law? Have the already overextended Coast Guard stop everyone leaving the marinas to verify that their holding tanks are empty? If you have this much time and money to spend, why not spend it instead trying to come up with better waste systems for boats? Or try to get your legislature to do something about enforcing existing laws on waste water dumping? Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
Alan, Before wasting your time (and our money), do some research first to get the facts. First, as Steve has pointed out, sailboats refuel maybe twice a year. Second, find out where most of the effluents in the waterways come from. You will find that the biggest sources are municipal water treatment systems and farm runoff. Boaters are a very small contributor to the problem. How would you enforce your law? Have the already overextended Coast Guard stop everyone leaving the marinas to verify that their holding tanks are empty? If you have this much time and money to spend, why not spend it instead trying to come up with better waste systems for boats? Or try to get your legislature to do something about enforcing existing laws on waste water dumping? Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
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d j
Agree with Pete, Steve, and Les
If government would clean up their act it would be a great improvement. It gets tiresome for them to pass more laws when they don't even live up to the ones that they impose on the public . . . . For example, where is the whistle blower law for Congress? <grin> Sorry, just had to go there.
If government would clean up their act it would be a great improvement. It gets tiresome for them to pass more laws when they don't even live up to the ones that they impose on the public . . . . For example, where is the whistle blower law for Congress? <grin> Sorry, just had to go there.
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Alan
For CLEAN water
The fact is that boaters ARE a small part of the overall problem, but we are still ALL part of that problem. I was not just refering to sailboats but ALL boats. Yes it is true that the big municipalities are probably the largest offenders,but does that mean that we should ignore what boaters are doing? Boaters should be the prime advocates of clean water. After all,it's the water that is the playground. Turning your head(no pun) away is not the answer. And nobody is going to address this problem without(unfortunately)laws. DJ, we are the government and the collective boating community should all be on the same page. If the entire boating community would speak, our government would have to listen.
The fact is that boaters ARE a small part of the overall problem, but we are still ALL part of that problem. I was not just refering to sailboats but ALL boats. Yes it is true that the big municipalities are probably the largest offenders,but does that mean that we should ignore what boaters are doing? Boaters should be the prime advocates of clean water. After all,it's the water that is the playground. Turning your head(no pun) away is not the answer. And nobody is going to address this problem without(unfortunately)laws. DJ, we are the government and the collective boating community should all be on the same page. If the entire boating community would speak, our government would have to listen.
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Pete
Alan and the pump out law?
Alan, not to be argumentive but why do you seam to insist that nothing will be done without a law? Laws get broken all the time.You talk about people being the goverment and goverment and the boating community should be all on the same page but you some how think only a law will make it happen. Do yourself a favor and check out the pump out boats in CT. (just across the Sound from you)I believe the state and local goverments run four or five of these boats along the Ct. coast line.They are a goverment(taxpayer) funded program and are user FREE ! The program is very very widely accepted and has been a overwelming sucess ! It puts boaters, the greenies and the goverment all on the "same page" and guess what- it is not a law! Think about who is now dumping there tanks,(in violation of a law) At least before the pump out boat service was avaliable,they were the boats (sail and power) who very rarely left the dock,but were using there holding tanks.These boat would never have gotten to the gas dock for a manadatory (by your proposed law)pump out anyway !Please no more laws ! I would think you would have more luck with your state and local goverment to fund a pump out service then to make a new law that does not realy solve the problem. My point is that some times thing work for the greater good of all and there is not a law to make it happen.
Alan, not to be argumentive but why do you seam to insist that nothing will be done without a law? Laws get broken all the time.You talk about people being the goverment and goverment and the boating community should be all on the same page but you some how think only a law will make it happen. Do yourself a favor and check out the pump out boats in CT. (just across the Sound from you)I believe the state and local goverments run four or five of these boats along the Ct. coast line.They are a goverment(taxpayer) funded program and are user FREE ! The program is very very widely accepted and has been a overwelming sucess ! It puts boaters, the greenies and the goverment all on the "same page" and guess what- it is not a law! Think about who is now dumping there tanks,(in violation of a law) At least before the pump out boat service was avaliable,they were the boats (sail and power) who very rarely left the dock,but were using there holding tanks.These boat would never have gotten to the gas dock for a manadatory (by your proposed law)pump out anyway !Please no more laws ! I would think you would have more luck with your state and local goverment to fund a pump out service then to make a new law that does not realy solve the problem. My point is that some times thing work for the greater good of all and there is not a law to make it happen.
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David
Alan?
Why is it you people have to be so intrusive on everyone else's life? Pete's answer is very fair and reasonable!
Why is it you people have to be so intrusive on everyone else's life? Pete's answer is very fair and reasonable!
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Alan
Intrusive???
This is a forum for discussion!! If you don't want to play then nobody is forcing you, BUT you don't get to sensor the comments. Besides, the health of the waters is of concern to entire public whether you like it or not. What you do with your boat is your business, until it affects other people. Then it becomes everyones business!!
This is a forum for discussion!! If you don't want to play then nobody is forcing you, BUT you don't get to sensor the comments. Besides, the health of the waters is of concern to entire public whether you like it or not. What you do with your boat is your business, until it affects other people. Then it becomes everyones business!!
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Victor Robert
Remember the macerator ?
If you have not disassembled the unit, as I am assuming since your mechanic doesn't like that kind of work, then you cannot be sure that the problem is in the pump. If you do not actively use and flush your holding tank, sludge can build up on the bottom which can block the pick-up hose. This seems quite likely if you can get by with pumping out 'two or three times a year'. If this is the case, you may have to force the blockage out with shore water pressure from the macerator end of the hose, then hope the sludge dissolves before it blocks the hose again. This is the advantage of flushing the tank with fresh water regularly as Peggy suggested. The option of having no macerator would be somewhat limiting if you have guests on board and a full tank. I am of course assuming that you sail where you can legally dump. Please check your municipal, state and federal regulations to determine the legality of these suggestions before proceeding.
If you have not disassembled the unit, as I am assuming since your mechanic doesn't like that kind of work, then you cannot be sure that the problem is in the pump. If you do not actively use and flush your holding tank, sludge can build up on the bottom which can block the pick-up hose. This seems quite likely if you can get by with pumping out 'two or three times a year'. If this is the case, you may have to force the blockage out with shore water pressure from the macerator end of the hose, then hope the sludge dissolves before it blocks the hose again. This is the advantage of flushing the tank with fresh water regularly as Peggy suggested. The option of having no macerator would be somewhat limiting if you have guests on board and a full tank. I am of course assuming that you sail where you can legally dump. Please check your municipal, state and federal regulations to determine the legality of these suggestions before proceeding.
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
Legality
All state and local waters are bound by the same federal regulation: it's illegal to dump a tank in any waters within 3 miles (6-12 in parts of FL on the Gulf side) of the nearest point on the whole US coastline or any of its offshore islands. That doesn't mean 3 miles from the nearest shore in a bay, lake or sound...that means you must be 3 miles out to sea in the Atlantic, Pacific or Gulf.
All state and local waters are bound by the same federal regulation: it's illegal to dump a tank in any waters within 3 miles (6-12 in parts of FL on the Gulf side) of the nearest point on the whole US coastline or any of its offshore islands. That doesn't mean 3 miles from the nearest shore in a bay, lake or sound...that means you must be 3 miles out to sea in the Atlantic, Pacific or Gulf.
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