The Macgregor versions have me somewhat confused when it comes to motoring. I've read a lot about Mac's reaching close to 20mph under power, but have a friend who says that's not possible for older models, that they're still bound by hull speed limitations. Can someone shed some light on this subject for me. Thanks
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Stephen Paul
Planing vs. displacement hull
The older Macs are displacement hulls or "real" sailboats. There max speed is defined by wetted surface or roughly the sq rt of 1.5X the waterline. Planing hulls like the 26X,M etc. are flatter bottoms designed to plane when powered adequately. Therein lyes the argument that the newer boats with 50 hp motors are not sailboats. Fact is they are more hybrid than even motorsailors. The older displacement hulls like the 22, 25, 26S etc. do sail quite a bit better but afford less inside room for just gunkholing around or overnighting. They ride rougher and are more subject to wind.It's a personal preference really. HOpe this helps. Steve
The older Macs are displacement hulls or "real" sailboats. There max speed is defined by wetted surface or roughly the sq rt of 1.5X the waterline. Planing hulls like the 26X,M etc. are flatter bottoms designed to plane when powered adequately. Therein lyes the argument that the newer boats with 50 hp motors are not sailboats. Fact is they are more hybrid than even motorsailors. The older displacement hulls like the 22, 25, 26S etc. do sail quite a bit better but afford less inside room for just gunkholing around or overnighting. They ride rougher and are more subject to wind.It's a personal preference really. HOpe this helps. Steve
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Ramblin' Rod - Mac 26D - SeaQuell
Objection!
To claim that a displacement hulled boat is a "real" sailboat (implying that power sailors are not) is ludicrous. There have been many "real" planing hulled sailboats created by the worlds greatest designers since the early 1900's. Consider that one can get a Mac powersailor from Florida to Bimini in about 2 1/2 hours, where on can then do some pretty serious "real" sailing. Perhaps "more traditional design" would be better terminology to describe the non power-sailing Macs. (How's that for pussy footin'?) ;-)
To claim that a displacement hulled boat is a "real" sailboat (implying that power sailors are not) is ludicrous. There have been many "real" planing hulled sailboats created by the worlds greatest designers since the early 1900's. Consider that one can get a Mac powersailor from Florida to Bimini in about 2 1/2 hours, where on can then do some pretty serious "real" sailing. Perhaps "more traditional design" would be better terminology to describe the non power-sailing Macs. (How's that for pussy footin'?) ;-)
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Stephen Paul
Ramblin' Rod Ouch
Rod, sorry to upset you. We'll have to agree to disagree. I own a Mac and still consider it a light boat. It wouldn't take too much of a pounding I hope we can agree on that. That said, sailing is about a lot of things, and mostly I just hope people can enjoy themselves and push to their limit for their own enjoyment, whatever that is. To those who are just learning about the boating world a "normal" sailboat doesn't plane, it's that simple. Hobies, racing boats etc. probably do. You might take a Mac from Fl to Bimini but you won't find me doing it. I stand corrected and agree with "traditional sailing boats" as a better term. Didn't mean to malign anyone. Fact is after I learned more about Macs I grew to love mine. I still don't trust it in heavy weather and the fact is I've just gotten too old to do the "sloop stoop" anymore. Steve
Rod, sorry to upset you. We'll have to agree to disagree. I own a Mac and still consider it a light boat. It wouldn't take too much of a pounding I hope we can agree on that. That said, sailing is about a lot of things, and mostly I just hope people can enjoy themselves and push to their limit for their own enjoyment, whatever that is. To those who are just learning about the boating world a "normal" sailboat doesn't plane, it's that simple. Hobies, racing boats etc. probably do. You might take a Mac from Fl to Bimini but you won't find me doing it. I stand corrected and agree with "traditional sailing boats" as a better term. Didn't mean to malign anyone. Fact is after I learned more about Macs I grew to love mine. I still don't trust it in heavy weather and the fact is I've just gotten too old to do the "sloop stoop" anymore. Steve
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Ramblin' Rod - SeaQuell
Here's what we can agree on...
1. Your initial post responded to the actual question fine. 2. I'm not upset. 3. Mac's are light boats. 4. "Normal" and "real" are not synonymous. Here's some stuff we may not agree on. 1. We bought our Mac Classic specifically so that someday we could take it across to the Bahamas and cruise in reasonable comfort while still having the advantages of a light trailerable "more traditional" boat. 2. I think it's safer to make the trip across in a Mac Power Sailor than almost any other sailboat available (including a Mac Classic) as one only needs a 3 hour vs 12 hour calm weather window. 3. There have been almost counteless Mac classics and Power Sailors sailed from Florida to the Bahamas and back. Many numerous times.
1. Your initial post responded to the actual question fine. 2. I'm not upset. 3. Mac's are light boats. 4. "Normal" and "real" are not synonymous. Here's some stuff we may not agree on. 1. We bought our Mac Classic specifically so that someday we could take it across to the Bahamas and cruise in reasonable comfort while still having the advantages of a light trailerable "more traditional" boat. 2. I think it's safer to make the trip across in a Mac Power Sailor than almost any other sailboat available (including a Mac Classic) as one only needs a 3 hour vs 12 hour calm weather window. 3. There have been almost counteless Mac classics and Power Sailors sailed from Florida to the Bahamas and back. Many numerous times.
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Carl
The Truth about macs
Just wanted to pass along some info about macs. I have been to macgregor several times for this and that, and asked about the new boats lined up out back. I was told that the reason they moved to the new designs was due to the increased popularity of recreational boating, and the declining interest in traditional sailing. People are in a hurry these days. The market to combine powerboating and sailing dictated the hybrid evolution. Business is business. Just a personal note: The older guys at Macgregor don't brighten up when talking about the big pretty boats our back.. I have learned so much from this forum, and really enjoy the info. I think that some of us need to just enjoy sailing, and chill on the remote speculation.. IMHO
Just wanted to pass along some info about macs. I have been to macgregor several times for this and that, and asked about the new boats lined up out back. I was told that the reason they moved to the new designs was due to the increased popularity of recreational boating, and the declining interest in traditional sailing. People are in a hurry these days. The market to combine powerboating and sailing dictated the hybrid evolution. Business is business. Just a personal note: The older guys at Macgregor don't brighten up when talking about the big pretty boats our back.. I have learned so much from this forum, and really enjoy the info. I think that some of us need to just enjoy sailing, and chill on the remote speculation.. IMHO
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Richard O'Brien
which model?
Perhaps you should ask someone who actually owns a Macgregor powersailor? The mac 17 to 25 models were produced until about 1994. not sure, but the mac 19 was produced in 95, the first powersailor, and that was followed by the 26X until 2002. starting in 2003 the 26M began. the M hull is nearly like a traditional sailboat except at the very aft hull section, where it flattens slightly. A planing hull must ride up on the water instead of pushing through it like a sailboat. The speed of a "displacement hull" is determined by it's waterline length, and is limited by natural physical laws. The M is a very fast sailboat, but doesn't sail upwind as well as others of similar size. This may have something to do with hull shape? Nevertheless it has earned a PHRF of 216 to 225 in many race organizations, and that is better than many full keel vessels of similar length.
Perhaps you should ask someone who actually owns a Macgregor powersailor? The mac 17 to 25 models were produced until about 1994. not sure, but the mac 19 was produced in 95, the first powersailor, and that was followed by the 26X until 2002. starting in 2003 the 26M began. the M hull is nearly like a traditional sailboat except at the very aft hull section, where it flattens slightly. A planing hull must ride up on the water instead of pushing through it like a sailboat. The speed of a "displacement hull" is determined by it's waterline length, and is limited by natural physical laws. The M is a very fast sailboat, but doesn't sail upwind as well as others of similar size. This may have something to do with hull shape? Nevertheless it has earned a PHRF of 216 to 225 in many race organizations, and that is better than many full keel vessels of similar length.
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Richard o'Brien
not too flat
Sorry, i have to correct something. When i said "flattened", I meant reduced radius/ parabolic. The M transom is narrowed to 42", and has about a 5' radius. I have trouble tacking mine in light winds, but this miay have more to do with my inexperience than the boat. It's not going to compare with a J-boat, but on a broad reach You'll get a pretty fast ride. I'm over 6', and can stand up in the cabin.
Sorry, i have to correct something. When i said "flattened", I meant reduced radius/ parabolic. The M transom is narrowed to 42", and has about a 5' radius. I have trouble tacking mine in light winds, but this miay have more to do with my inexperience than the boat. It's not going to compare with a J-boat, but on a broad reach You'll get a pretty fast ride. I'm over 6', and can stand up in the cabin.
Did I make a mistake??
Last spring I bought a 1993 Mac 19'. I liked it because I could motor or sail and being a novice I thought that if things got to rough for me I could get off the water in a hurry. Even thought others told me that Mac's were not built as heavy as a "tradional" boat I took into consideration the fact trailering would be easier. I sail my boat on inland waters only so far but would like to sail on something like the Gulf Islands of BC or the San Juans on the US West Coast. Will my boat handle these types of waters or did I make a mistake in buying this boat and perhaps have gone to something like a 22' O'Day?? I do like my boat though.
Last spring I bought a 1993 Mac 19'. I liked it because I could motor or sail and being a novice I thought that if things got to rough for me I could get off the water in a hurry. Even thought others told me that Mac's were not built as heavy as a "tradional" boat I took into consideration the fact trailering would be easier. I sail my boat on inland waters only so far but would like to sail on something like the Gulf Islands of BC or the San Juans on the US West Coast. Will my boat handle these types of waters or did I make a mistake in buying this boat and perhaps have gone to something like a 22' O'Day?? I do like my boat though.
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Stephen Paul
Mistake? No
I don't think you made a mistake at all. Get your sailing certificate and rent a heavier boat for those riskier excursions. Under normal conditions I think you can sail those areas safely, just be aware of weather windows and let someone know your sail plan. Be appropriately equiped and be careful while having so much fun. Steve
I don't think you made a mistake at all. Get your sailing certificate and rent a heavier boat for those riskier excursions. Under normal conditions I think you can sail those areas safely, just be aware of weather windows and let someone know your sail plan. Be appropriately equiped and be careful while having so much fun. Steve
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