We have a M25 with a kickup rudder that has a lock down pin. We are sailing in Lake Superior. In mild winds all is well, but in 10-15k winds we loose our rudder controle. Any ideas would be apprieciated, we are about to give up.
M25 rudder control
- Thread starter Reg 2012
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So what you're saying is, when the winds pipe up, you have no steerage? Have you tried reducing sail?
Our Macs need reefing fairly early.
Got any photos of your rudder? Dimensions?
Our Macs need reefing fairly early.
Got any photos of your rudder? Dimensions?
Were are you at in Superior, I am also sailing Superior would love to get in contact and chat. I am around the Baraga, Houghton Area in Michigan.
It sounds like you are broaching. Mine did that especially with gust or in 15-20 nm winds. It happened especially on close reach when I would lose focus or get hit by a gust. You can avoid it by reefing or just letting the sheets out a bit. With the roller furler I am able to reduce sail easily. You can also prevent it by fallling off a couple of degrees.
Its a scary thing when it happens.
Some claim that the Ida rudder upgrade is the way to go.
Its a scary thing when it happens.
Some claim that the Ida rudder upgrade is the way to go.
Hi Frank, Thanks for the reply.
We do not have a roller furler, but have tried sailing with just the main. We could try reefing. We did try letting the sheets out, but did not make much difference. Will check out the ida rudder. Thanks, Reg
We do not have a roller furler, but have tried sailing with just the main. We could try reefing. We did try letting the sheets out, but did not make much difference. Will check out the ida rudder. Thanks, Reg
We are at the Washburn marina in WI. If you would like to give me a call, the number is 715-798-3509. Would like to talk about our boats. Thanks, Reg
Hi Tom, Thanks for your reply,
We have tried taking the jib down. We will try reefing the main. The rudder is oringinal. We did learn how to pin it down. Thanks, Reg
We have tried taking the jib down. We will try reefing the main. The rudder is oringinal. We did learn how to pin it down. Thanks, Reg
Ok, here is your problem (based on my own experience) - Mac 25 is very light (in fact, the displacement to ballast weight ratio qualifies as ultra light). So, Mac is VERY sensitive to the headsail/mainsail balance. In high winds, if your headsail is much smaller than mainsail (or completely gone), the force of wind will make the boat pivot around the mast/keel axis and try to make the boat point to wind (thus, the "weather helm"). You can counteract it by increasing the headsail and decreasing the mainsail area. In light winds I usually carry a reacher that's an equivalent of a 130% genoa and I had NEVER have a weather helm problem. If wind is to strong, just reef the main. By reducing the mainsail area you balance the forces acting on your boat and the weather helm does not occur. Sooo... carry more headsail or reduce the mainsail area to balance the boat.
BTW, I tried sailing with the main only and the boat was completely unmanageable.
Shorting sail when the wind gets above 15-20 mph is a must if you want to keep the
O -Sh.t. –O Meter under 45 degrees. Up grading your rudder will certainly help weather helm and make the boat much more user friendly. Some other areas to address would be mast rake, keel position, and adding a main sheet traveler. I built my rudder with a 0012 airfoil, set the mast rake angle to 1.5 deg. and added a main sheet traveler. It’s a different boat lots more fun. I also use a 4 foot bungee attached to the stern rails with one turn around the tiller to hold course when out alone.
O -Sh.t. –O Meter under 45 degrees. Up grading your rudder will certainly help weather helm and make the boat much more user friendly. Some other areas to address would be mast rake, keel position, and adding a main sheet traveler. I built my rudder with a 0012 airfoil, set the mast rake angle to 1.5 deg. and added a main sheet traveler. It’s a different boat lots more fun. I also use a 4 foot bungee attached to the stern rails with one turn around the tiller to hold course when out alone.
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rudder build
Hey Eric,
Could you give a rundown of how you built your rudder? Materials and methods... I need to give my chunk of plywood a little more personality...Scott
Hey Eric,
Could you give a rundown of how you built your rudder? Materials and methods... I need to give my chunk of plywood a little more personality...Scott
SeaBass
I went overboard, no pun intended, in a previous life I built model sailplane wings using vacuum bagged foam covered with epoxy and fiberglass.
I cut a NACA 0012 airfoil out of foam, vacuumed bagged it, removed the foam and used marine plywood to fill the void. The plywood was a loose fit so I used Polyester resin and glass to fill the rest.
That being said there are lots of very good post on this site with detailed instructions on how to build a better rudder. As a start you can use the original and add to the bottom and leading edge, it really is worth the effort.
Erik
I went overboard, no pun intended, in a previous life I built model sailplane wings using vacuum bagged foam covered with epoxy and fiberglass.
I cut a NACA 0012 airfoil out of foam, vacuumed bagged it, removed the foam and used marine plywood to fill the void. The plywood was a loose fit so I used Polyester resin and glass to fill the rest.
That being said there are lots of very good post on this site with detailed instructions on how to build a better rudder. As a start you can use the original and add to the bottom and leading edge, it really is worth the effort.
Erik
I replaced/rebuilt the rudders on all three of my boats and it resulted in much better handling/control every time.
I haven’t added weight, the boats interior is pretty much stock. I carry the anchor, 20’of chain and 200’of ½ " line as far forward as possible. The Honda 7.5 is hung on the adjustable mount located on the port side with a 5 gal. fuel tank located under a seat that bridges the area in the stern. I have played with the position of the keel and you would be surprised how that affects her sailing characteristic. I have found that if I let the keel rest on the stop as fat down as possible it increases weather helm. In light winds if I let the keel rest against the locking pin she seems pretty well balanced. When the wind pipes up I pin the rudder, reef the main and play with sail trim. In most cases I can keep her on her feet and have a lot of fun. Sail trim is the thing however and the condition of your sails has a lot to do with speed and control. My main is in fair to good condition and the 150% Genoa on a CDI furler is in very good condition. Hope this helps.
Erik
Erik
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