When I'm out sailing in 15 knots or so in the tidal rivers, I have had to feather the main to flogging in any fresh breeze. My boat didn't have a reef built in at the time. My first thought was to add weight to the drop keel, and then to lower the center of effort. Since the boom is SO high I felt there was room for lowering it without resorting to severe ducking as with small racing boats. After drilling out the boom gooseneck support rivets I temporarily mounted the support 8 inches lower with two radiator hose clamps. This is to be sure of where I want it before drilling new holes. At 5’8” & sitting down the boom clears on tacks. I may move it up an inch. I'm sure that lowering the center of effort will make the boat heal less and point better. I have other mods too. I did a search for this and surprised no one has reported doing this mod! What are your experiences? Steve in Savannah
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Interesting !
This is an interesting subject, I'm only into my second year of sailing so keep that in mind. I also sail the 170. I know when I reef I have reduced the total amount of sail area and have lowered the "CG" a bit too. What you have done is to MAINTAIN YOUR TOTAL AMOUNT OF SAIL AREA while lowering the "CG" I would expect that your boat would be faster if you were in the same condition and the other 170 was reefed. By lowereing the boom as you did, have you noticed any difference in the jib performance or over all handling of the boat, ie: weather helem, plus or negative ? Pointing ability, enhanced or diminished ? Down wind performance ? How would you rate the overal performance now that you made these changes vs before ?
This is an interesting subject, I'm only into my second year of sailing so keep that in mind. I also sail the 170. I know when I reef I have reduced the total amount of sail area and have lowered the "CG" a bit too. What you have done is to MAINTAIN YOUR TOTAL AMOUNT OF SAIL AREA while lowering the "CG" I would expect that your boat would be faster if you were in the same condition and the other 170 was reefed. By lowereing the boom as you did, have you noticed any difference in the jib performance or over all handling of the boat, ie: weather helem, plus or negative ? Pointing ability, enhanced or diminished ? Down wind performance ? How would you rate the overal performance now that you made these changes vs before ?
Effects of lowering Center of Effort...
Glenn, Answers to ques: helm = no - that would be affected by mast rake which is not changed. Pointing ablility = most likely yes since I'm not spilling so much out of the 'main engine'. Overall performance definitely should be better. Conditions are always changing, so a controled study is next to impossible. What I haven't done is raise and lower boom "on the same day out sailing" which would be more conclusive. Since there is only one other H170 boat that I know of in Sav'h that I've only seen once, I could only guess that it would beat a shortened sail H170. Thanks for your interest. BTW this is just my 2nd post here. Steve
Glenn, Answers to ques: helm = no - that would be affected by mast rake which is not changed. Pointing ablility = most likely yes since I'm not spilling so much out of the 'main engine'. Overall performance definitely should be better. Conditions are always changing, so a controled study is next to impossible. What I haven't done is raise and lower boom "on the same day out sailing" which would be more conclusive. Since there is only one other H170 boat that I know of in Sav'h that I've only seen once, I could only guess that it would beat a shortened sail H170. Thanks for your interest. BTW this is just my 2nd post here. Steve
2nd post
Have you gone to dennis@sailing-obsession.com several of us use this site for our club. we have three 170's and two 216. we are a small club that has just completed our first year together.Its been great fun. We have our 170 expert, Danny Hartzell, he would be a good person to contact for questions, comparison ect. We use this site too, there is a lot of helpfull 170 owners out there. Sure would be fun to sail with everyone ! Are you still sailing ?..I have'nt been out since Sept. 17th, sure looking forward to getting back on the water soon.
Have you gone to dennis@sailing-obsession.com several of us use this site for our club. we have three 170's and two 216. we are a small club that has just completed our first year together.Its been great fun. We have our 170 expert, Danny Hartzell, he would be a good person to contact for questions, comparison ect. We use this site too, there is a lot of helpfull 170 owners out there. Sure would be fun to sail with everyone ! Are you still sailing ?..I have'nt been out since Sept. 17th, sure looking forward to getting back on the water soon.
adjustable gooseneck
Sav'h Steve, Good idea! Hunter designed a high boom to clear the noggins of novice sailors, but at the expense of a high COE. I have considered mounting my boom lower but have been waiting for some other brave soul to try it first
The approach I am considering is to switch to a sliding gooseneck -- one that rides in the mast track slot -- instead of a fixed gooseneck. This would require the boom vang attachment point on the mast to be adjustable as well. Not something you could adjust underway, but would allow for experimentation under different sailing conditions. Dwyer makes a sliding gooseneck that will fit the 170 mast track. In order to be adjustable underway, you'd have to have an "extended" gooseneck fabricated -- a rod that rides in the mast track, long enough to have a gooseneck fitting at the top, a boom vang attachment point below, and an eye or loop below that for a gooseneck downhaul. One recommendation I've heard is that if you drill out any pop rivets on your mast to move a fixture, be sure to install pop rivets in the holes you leave behind. This is to lessen the likelihood of a stress cracks starting at the open holes. Good luck and let us know how your experiment works. Sailing season in upstate NY is over except for the hardiest of souls.
Sav'h Steve, Good idea! Hunter designed a high boom to clear the noggins of novice sailors, but at the expense of a high COE. I have considered mounting my boom lower but have been waiting for some other brave soul to try it first
The approach I am considering is to switch to a sliding gooseneck -- one that rides in the mast track slot -- instead of a fixed gooseneck. This would require the boom vang attachment point on the mast to be adjustable as well. Not something you could adjust underway, but would allow for experimentation under different sailing conditions. Dwyer makes a sliding gooseneck that will fit the 170 mast track. In order to be adjustable underway, you'd have to have an "extended" gooseneck fabricated -- a rod that rides in the mast track, long enough to have a gooseneck fitting at the top, a boom vang attachment point below, and an eye or loop below that for a gooseneck downhaul. One recommendation I've heard is that if you drill out any pop rivets on your mast to move a fixture, be sure to install pop rivets in the holes you leave behind. This is to lessen the likelihood of a stress cracks starting at the open holes. Good luck and let us know how your experiment works. Sailing season in upstate NY is over except for the hardiest of souls.Lowering the boom - follow-up
Sav'h Steve - lots of us will be watching your results with great interest! You might talk to Hunter direct - their customer service is excellent, and you may be able to have an honest discussion with them. Such a question requires them to answer "off the record", but they often are willing. Could this mod have the added benefit to make the 170 less prone to flipping? Since it seems that boat will turtle when it flips, this would be a hug advantage. Rich from Rochester has a good idea of putting in a sliding gooseneck. Please let us know, and provide pictures. Good luck.
Sav'h Steve - lots of us will be watching your results with great interest! You might talk to Hunter direct - their customer service is excellent, and you may be able to have an honest discussion with them. Such a question requires them to answer "off the record", but they often are willing. Could this mod have the added benefit to make the 170 less prone to flipping? Since it seems that boat will turtle when it flips, this would be a hug advantage. Rich from Rochester has a good idea of putting in a sliding gooseneck. Please let us know, and provide pictures. Good luck.
Moveable boom? Why?
Rick, Well I guess I'm the stupid brave soul. Actually I figured that many others had already done it. But didn't see any evidence here on this board. I read about your moveable boom (up & dn mast). FWIW I personally don't see any reason to have an adjustable one. (The boom vang could remain stationary: the downward pull would remain same.) Once you decide how you like it, then get your SS rivets and nail her down!! Sure was nice on the river today. No wind though, turned into an exercise in rigging! I think the loads on this mast are light unless you are giving the asymetrical a real workout. I'll put aluminum rivits in for looks. Steve
Rick, Well I guess I'm the stupid brave soul. Actually I figured that many others had already done it. But didn't see any evidence here on this board. I read about your moveable boom (up & dn mast). FWIW I personally don't see any reason to have an adjustable one. (The boom vang could remain stationary: the downward pull would remain same.) Once you decide how you like it, then get your SS rivets and nail her down!! Sure was nice on the river today. No wind though, turned into an exercise in rigging! I think the loads on this mast are light unless you are giving the asymetrical a real workout. I'll put aluminum rivits in for looks. Steve
Hunter's Response
Tereza, I did talk to Hunter. He agreed with me and then pointed out that their marketing was to be sure NO one got hit by the boom. Must have included Wilt Chamberlain and gang. Once I lock in to my setting based on heavier weather, I will rivet it in. Then I'll cut off the top of the mast and reset in the main halyard shreave. Looks like it will be about 7" off the top. That much weight by itself will help more than you think because of the lever effect. It will not interfere with the jig or spinaker. As far a keeping the boat from turtleing (sp?), I thought that was from gybing and rounding up out of control with the weight on the wrong side. If this is not correct, or if you have seen otherwise - I'm interested. So this mod probably won't help that except for being in better control of the boat! Steve
Tereza, I did talk to Hunter. He agreed with me and then pointed out that their marketing was to be sure NO one got hit by the boom. Must have included Wilt Chamberlain and gang. Once I lock in to my setting based on heavier weather, I will rivet it in. Then I'll cut off the top of the mast and reset in the main halyard shreave. Looks like it will be about 7" off the top. That much weight by itself will help more than you think because of the lever effect. It will not interfere with the jig or spinaker. As far a keeping the boat from turtleing (sp?), I thought that was from gybing and rounding up out of control with the weight on the wrong side. If this is not correct, or if you have seen otherwise - I'm interested. So this mod probably won't help that except for being in better control of the boat! Steve
While you have the top of your mast off...
Sav'h Steve...if you don't want to turtle, go to the archives and search for "turtle foam mast", and you should see some posts here with detailed instructions on how to foam the mast, as well as actual sea trials that Glenn did after outfitting the boat this way. From what I have heard, the 170 is a tad "tender", and if it should go over, is quite likely to turtle. A float up there is one way to go, but it adds weight and windage up high. I plan on doing the foaming to my H146 either in a week or 2 or then in the spring. It will make a world of difference in confidence out on the water, and maybe prevent serious damage if you turtle in shallower-than-mast-height waters. As to lowering the boom, I think I will go with a movable gooseneck. I miss that extra control from my last boat - I used the downhaul for the gooseneck as another sail shape control. I would really like to hear how you make out with your mods. Best of luck!
Sav'h Steve...if you don't want to turtle, go to the archives and search for "turtle foam mast", and you should see some posts here with detailed instructions on how to foam the mast, as well as actual sea trials that Glenn did after outfitting the boat this way. From what I have heard, the 170 is a tad "tender", and if it should go over, is quite likely to turtle. A float up there is one way to go, but it adds weight and windage up high. I plan on doing the foaming to my H146 either in a week or 2 or then in the spring. It will make a world of difference in confidence out on the water, and maybe prevent serious damage if you turtle in shallower-than-mast-height waters. As to lowering the boom, I think I will go with a movable gooseneck. I miss that extra control from my last boat - I used the downhaul for the gooseneck as another sail shape control. I would really like to hear how you make out with your mods. Best of luck!
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