Lower Shrouds

Aug 8, 2013
8
716
Okay so Catalina Direct has offically scared me. Has everybody switched over to their retrofit kit for the lower shrouds? According to them, the original design was never meant to be used with a tang. For info, go to their website and read there warning written in red.
Great, I just replaced all of my standing rigging last year.
 
Jul 5, 2013
36
653
I had problems with mine bending, twisting and popping out of the tangs. I replaced my lowers with the CD replacements and I couldn't be happier.
 

shnool

.
Aug 10, 2012
556
WD Schock Wavelength 24 Wallenpaupack
I don't think their concern is invalid...
However you must understand that many of the boats are over 20 years old... also of those, many are rental fleet boats (lots of hard use).

I think one should have a plan to migrate to their newer upgraded components.

This isn't unique to the Capri 22. The J/24 had a similar problem... It's something that is found with years of hard use.
 
Jan 22, 2008
98
Catalina Capri-18 Dallas TX
cbreazy said:
Okay so Catalina Direct has offically scared me. Has everybody switched over to their retrofit kit for the lower shrouds? According to them, the original design was never meant to be used with a tang. For info, go to their website and read there warning written in red.
Great, I just replaced all of my standing rigging last year.
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm ... --mkii.cfm
takes us to the page in question.

And there is a small illustration of the offending connection.

The J-hooks are what they are referring to.
They don't keep the stresses in line with the hardware.

Neither does the clevis setup with the too-long pin.
 

shnool

.
Aug 10, 2012
556
WD Schock Wavelength 24 Wallenpaupack
The problem was big enough that at one point Cat Direct was calling all owners. They said they had seen several mast failures in a couple months.

Again the problem is real... however, if you JUST did a rigging upgrade, I'd have a plan to migrate to the upgrade, on your schedule.

Interesting note, the Capri 25, didn't use the same configuration on the lowers, or if they did, mine was already upgraded.
 
Jul 3, 2013
107
1258
I have purchased the Catalina Direct lower shroud upgrade, but have not installed it yet. It will be installed this Spring (hopefully next week).

My question about the whole lower shroud "replacement" upgrade has to do with the UPPER shrouds. The upper shrouds on my CP 22 (#1258) have the same mast attachment setup (T-bar fitting into a tang) that my lowers do. If the lowers have a better way to attach, how about the uppers? Do they have a problem also?

Do older CP 22's use that same setup for the uppers or is there a different arrangement?

Just to make things more interesting, I seem to own the "transitional" boat for the new mast supplier / standing rig lengths. Catalina Direct now talks about Catalina having a new mast and boom supplier (and different shroud lengths) starting with hull #1259.
 
Jan 30, 2014
63
771
I would be interested in knowing how many masts have failed.
If you start picking apart the way sail boats are put together almost every system could be improved some how. I'm not tripping on it.
 
Jan 30, 2014
63
771
Ok, I just checked mine,starbord side toggle and tang slightly bent and twisted. I will order the replacments however, would like to know what is causing them to fail? is it just the fact they are not inserted into a receiving hole in the mast so they flex more?
any idea's?
 
Jul 5, 2013
36
653
My understanding is that the T-bar fittings were designed for use in the mast not in a tang. I don't know how many masts have failed because of this, I mine almost did.

I was on a windward tack when I heard a pop and my leeward lower shroud fell to the deck. I quickly took down my main and inspected the shroud. It turns out that the T-bar was so twisted that the T-bar was only hanging onto the tang by one of the T sides (if that makes any senes) I am shocked that the windward shroud didn't fall out. If it did, I have no doubt that my mast would be in at least two pieces right now.
 
Jan 30, 2014
63
771
I am convinced after seeing mine and hearing your story I will replace both lowers and uppers. Do they make them with the enclosed turn buckles. My old ones are the enclosed type and are nice because you don't have to tape them. Will the old enclosed body's work with the new threaded ends.
 

Dfox

.
Mar 17, 2014
18
279
The upper and lower shrouds use the tball and plate/tang arrangement.
I am not sure what the difference is to say the lower shrouds need to be replaced but the uppers are ok.
 
Jul 3, 2013
107
1258
tom h said:
My old ones are the enclosed type and are nice because you don't have to tape them. Will the old enclosed body's work with the new threaded ends.
Your enclosed style of turnbuckle should work just fine with the shroud upgrade package.
 

HERSH

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Nov 21, 2012
520
Catalina Capri 22 http://www.chelseayacht.org
tom h said:
I would be interested in knowing how many masts have failed.
If you start picking apart the way sail boats are put together almost every system could be improved some how. I'm not tripping on it.
If they were failing frequently would the DoT ( Dept. of Transportation)force the company to have a recall?

Hershey
 

shnool

.
Aug 10, 2012
556
WD Schock Wavelength 24 Wallenpaupack
I doubt the DoT, or more likely the NTSB would intervene for such a small craft. Even if life/limb were involved it'd likely not elevate to their level. Sadly sailors represent to small a cross section, and span too large a production run (years of product) to get involved in something like this.

HOWEVER, I think Catalina Direct has done a bang up job in informing the owners of the potential for failure and offered a pretty reasonably priced replacement/fix.

Keep in mind Catalinadirect gets a lions share of inquiries for parts, and likely has a pretty accurate number of how many masts have failed. My opinion is if they had more than a "few" it would warrant a look-see at what their solution was to fix the problem.

Not to derail things much, but this is NOT uncommon on OD boats (to have inherent flaws). The J/24 very notoriously suffered from some pretty spectacular sinkings. The problem was WELL KNOWN by those that sailed them. What was happening was the doors to the lazarettes were flopping open when the boat was hard over in a broach (usually a spinnaker induced broach). When they flopped open a gaping hole to down below is created, scuttling the boat in short order with even a minor wave. My Capri 25 suffers a SIMILAR design flaw in that the lazarette opens to DOWN below, there is NO WATER TIGHT cavity below it. One should take special pains to keep the lazarette door gasket in GOOD condition, and also to either A) lock the latch or B) use bull-dog latches (snap latches) to hold the doors closed. Granted you can still stand the boat on it's ear, and if your hatch boards aren't in, a roller or two could set you under water, but I've personally filled the cockpit on both my 25, and also my 22, and without those lazarette lids in place, and locked, I could easily be mounting a "recovery" of my boat, rather than sailing away in it! I'd say that's a much BIGGER design flaw than these tangs for the shrouds. Again a dismasting would be a close 2nd. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF1Av_mIrgg
Notice to all J/Boats licensees and National Class Associations:

The standard specifications of the J/24 are hereby officially modified to provide added insurance of flotation in case of knockdown in severe conditions and crew error in not securing lazarette hatches. In the past six months, three J/24s have sunk. One in Japan and one in the Gulf Stream off Florida in winds exceeding 60 knots. The boats were knocked flat and flooding occured through the cockpit hatches which were not secured. In the third instance, nineteen people were aboard and the boat was knocked flat when a strong gust caught them all on the wrong side. Again, flooding occurred through an unsecured cockpit hatch. Fortunately, no one was hurt. And we think you should, and, we want to take every precaution to avoid a recurrence"
Wow 19 people? Really?

Granted a falling mast ain't pretty, but it' will likely fall to port or starboard, not fore/aft (especially with sails up). Thank God as you hope most would be in the cockpit for such a tragedy then, not foredeck, scary, and injuries, but most would walk away from it. Scuttle a boat, in coldish water? Maybe not so lucky.
 
May 3, 2008
252
Catalina Capri 22 Half Moon Bay
For what it's worth?!?!

I'm very pleased with the CD lower shrouds I installed...
The toggles are much less prone to getting twisted / undone while stepping the mast.
My upper shrouds are still the old horn type with rubber preventers to keep them in place.
...next time around, they will be replaced with toggles as well.
 

HERSH

.
Nov 21, 2012
520
Catalina Capri 22 http://www.chelseayacht.org
Avaitor James;

For us poor sailors in the northern climes, it sure would be nice if you warmed up our hearts by posting a few photo's of your latest "deck ornament(s)". It has been a long cold winter .... very long, and very cold and snowy.

I think we reached 50 F today ... in NY today ---- real heat wave :)


Hersh
 
Apr 3, 2014
18
299
I switched to the new ones last year after a newbie oops caused me to twist and break the cables.

It was an easy fix that I was able to complete using a ladder lashed to the mast and extending slightly beyond the lower spreaders.

No problem at all, except when my father decided he needed to get off the boat. That was scary!