Low Stretch Hi Tech or Polyester for Sheet Lines

Stu Jackson · Jan 28, 2016

Ward H said:
be a worthy upgrade for main and jib sheets?

For sheets, which are always being adjusted, I would think not necessary.

But Jackdaw will/should chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

Cruising or racing?

THECUSCUS · Jan 28, 2016

Not familiar with the Sampson line, but New England Ropes "Salsa Dyneema" single braid is an excellent choice for sheets. It is really easy on the hands and is very kink free. An it comes in cool colors too! You can get the red fleck for port sheets and the green fleck for starboard. And it's not expensive.

uncledom · Jan 29, 2016

I use low stretch on all halyards. A little spring in in your sheets is a good thing, and yes your always adjusting them anyway. Outhaul should also be low stretch. IMHO

Jackdaw · Jan 29, 2016

All good so far. Two things about sheets:

1) They are always the thickest lines in your running rigging, due to hand use. This extra thickness v boat-length automatically decreases their stretch, which is a function of line size. So on a given boat often a thick average line will stretch about the same distance as a thin hi-tech one. Or close.

2) Actual stretch is is a function of load x distance, and the loaded distance on headsail sheets is often very short. So less actual stretch. Mainsheets loads are reduced 4x or 6x, so that helps there.

So to me the most important factors is how it feels in the hands, and how it goes through the gear. These are high tech lines but I like them for their feel, and less about the stretch. For jib sheets Maffioli Swiftcord, and for mainsheets its gotta be NER Salsa. Salso is great because of its perfectly flat 'lay', so it does not hockle.

To the OP, the dbl-braid you like will be fine for you and your boat. A very nice bump is NER VPC. Splits the difference between the two. We use a lot of it.

One more thing. Hi-tech (dyneema based) running rigging (halyards+sheets) is actually VERY HARD on your boat. Stretchy double-braid acts as a shock absorber, and if you swap it out the extra shock on the rig when sailing in breeze is very noticeable. Keep that in mind. You have to be more careful, and check your gear more often.

Joe · Jan 29, 2016

3/8" Trophy Braid for jib sheets .... good choice. For mainsheet you can go down a size... 5/16" .. it will run through the blocks a lot better, NE Salsa sounds pretty good .. I use Samson 5/16 xls on my C27... --- For halyards.... dyneema core is my choice. I make my own "tapered" halyards.... but you can use 5/16 Samson Warpspeed and strip off the cover for the section that isn't handled and cleated...(approx. half the total length of the halyard). Bring your checkbook if you go that way.

Bottom line.... nothing larger than 5/16 except headsail sheets... max 3/8.. for the hand.

Gunni · Jan 29, 2016

Maffioli Swiftcord ? Wow, That's new to me. Looks like an improved (and less expensive) version of NER Regatta. I love the NER Regatta single braid. The stuff is indestructible, and oh-so-easy on the hand AND the winch drum. I want my jib sheets to stick to the primary winches and Regatta single braid is very high friction.

Jackdaw · Jan 29, 2016

Gunni said:
Maffioli Swiftcord ? Wow, That's new to me. Looks like an improved (and less expensive) version of NER Regatta. I love the NER Regatta single braid. The stuff is indestructible, and oh-so-easy on the hand AND the winch drum. I want my jib sheets to stick to the primary winches and Regatta single braid is very high friction.

It's the hot ticket.

And the blend with Condura is brillant. It makes the hand great and also does not absorb water. And also like salsa with no twist it does not hockle. Great line. All the top teams use it. Oh. Traveler lines too.

Jackdaw · Jan 31, 2016

Gunni said:
Maffioli Swiftcord ? Wow, That's new to me. Looks like an improved (and less expensive) version of NER Regatta. I love the NER Regatta single braid. The stuff is indestructible, and oh-so-easy on the hand AND the winch drum. I want my jib sheets to stick to the primary winches and Regatta single braid is very high friction.

I've always found Regatta hugely stretchy. Swiftcord has the same soft hand, but being dyneema-based has much much less stretch. Its generally more expensive than Regatta.

Scott T-Bird · Feb 1, 2016

Nice discussion on the preferred products! How do most of you determine the length of line needed? My genoa sheets are about 40' length and it seems that almost all of it is spilled on the cockpit floor and creating a nuisance. I've tried doubling a single line and found that it gets yanked through the fairlead at just the wrong instant. I've yet to figure out just the right length.

JohnShannon · Feb 1, 2016

Well if your sheets are too long, cut them. At some point you will figure out when and why you cut too much, and you will know the exact right length to buy your next set! All the rope guys provide you with estimators. If you have a biggish genoa then likely the longest will be when you are close hauled and the unused sheet has to reach all the way around the mast to the jib clew that is sheeted in to almost the cockpit. If you have a smaller blade type jib then I would suppose wing on wing would define the longest sheet.

Gunni · Feb 1, 2016

Genoa sheets - 1.5 x the length of your boat.

Jackdaw · Feb 1, 2016

JohnShannon said:
If you have a smaller blade type jib then I would suppose wing on wing would define the longest sheet.

Blade? Wing-on-wing? Spinnaker time!!!! ;^)

Meriachee · Feb 1, 2016

Anytime is kite time.

The simplest way to get line length details that work for you is to go get 100' of the cheapest stuff you can lay your hands on, and armed with a Sharpie and tape measure, go sailing. If the sheet is marked at 34 feet, then you know that if you get 38 feet of the uber- expensive stuff, you'll not be short, but also you won't have a pile of it in the cockpit at a zillion a foot.
We've got a coil of 5/16 double braid in a nice green that has been used for virtually every job on the boat and has enough Sharpie lines on it to qualify as artwork.

Brian S · Feb 1, 2016

Ward H said:
With that said, is it overkill having dyneema halyards on a boat of my size?
Until the end of last season I was using the 35 year old main. I bought a new Rolly Tasker main at the end of the season and got to use it several times in winds 15 - 20 +. The luff/slugs vibrated in the higher winds and Dirk suggested I needed more halyard tension. I don't have a winch for main halyard so I could only get it "hand" tight. I'm installing a halyard winch this spring and figured a low stretch halyard would also be beneficial.

Sounds like I can save some money and stay with the Samson Trophy braid. Thanks All!

Ward, hold off on the halyard winch for now. You need to "sweat" the halyard once you've got the main at full hoist to work the bolt rope and get tension. Hold the halyard on the cleat, and grab a couple feet above the cleat. Pull or push the halyard to the side, and quickly take up on the bitter end as you leave off tension. Check out this video right about 9 or 10 seconds in, you'll see the woman sweating the line on a bigger boat, with a guy to "tail the line" for her.

Scott T-Bird · Feb 1, 2016

Gunni said:
Genoa sheets - 1.5 x the length of your boat.

So that would seem to correspond exactly with the length of my current sheets, if I remember correctly, and it seems like overkill. I'm going to measure again on the basement floor just to be sure. From the primary winch (back by the pedestal), around the mast (outside the shrouds) and back to the clew, can't be much more than about 15' to 18' for a 150 genoa. It would seem that 25' would be plenty.

It seems that whatever I have, it is overkill by at least 10', even with the lazy sheet. What to do with all that excess line is one of the more vexing problems when tacking frequently.

Jackdaw · Feb 1, 2016

Scott T-Bird said:
So that would seem to correspond exactly with the length of my current sheets, if I remember correctly, and it seems like overkill. I'm going to measure again on the basement floor just to be sure. From the primary winch (back by the pedestal), around the mast (outside the shrouds) and back to the clew, can't be much more than about 15' to 18' for a 150 genoa. It would seem that 25' would be plenty.

It seems that whatever I have, it is overkill by at least 10', even with the lazy sheet. What to do with all that excess line is one of the more vexing problems when tacking frequently.

1.5*LOA - A good place to start. But,

It really depends on the boat, and the size of the headsail. If we did not furl we could use 12 foot sheets on BlueJ with her blade jib, tight sheet angle, and cabin-top primaries. A big genoa and aft winches will make for much longer sheets.

Marking them is good advice to find what max makes sense. Then pick the bad end and cut them off!

Scott T-Bird · Feb 1, 2016

Not cutting off the Sta Set X that I have for genoa sheets. I hate those lines anyway. If I could dispose of lines, I would toss those for sure. But, as somebody else already pointed out, I have that disease that doesn't allow me to throw line away. I'll probably just coil them and throw them somewhere in a compartment (probably down low for ballast).

Ward, I bought warpspeed for halyards last year and haven't used them yet. I'll be putting them on this spring. I also thought Sampson MLX would be a good choice for spinnaker sheets so that is what I bought, but haven't used them yet either.
The choices of rope are FAR too varied for me to wrap my head around it without some kind of organized comparison. I put together a rather complicated spreadsheet that organizes all the ropes that I am likely to consider, by each use, length and possible diameter. I made separate charts to included tensile strength, stretch, weight and price so that my selections could be compared in a chart to help with selection.

Based on all my outcomes, I found warpspeed to be the best option considering performance and price for halyards. I shopped about 5 or 6 sources for best prices, and I used the best price found for each product in my chart with a highlight to indicate the source. However, I found that SBO was consistently very close to the lowest price, if not the lowest price. I also found that SBO has about the best selection of lines that I would consider for all of the various applications. Defender was pretty much in there for best pricing and selection as well. Customer loyalty and customer service steers me to SBO for line selection. I held off on choosing lines for sheets. This discussion has steered me to giving much more consideration to Salsa lines for the genoa and jib when I purchase later this year. They are a bit pricey, though.