Low Lead Genoa Cars and Genoa Foot Blocks

[Ward H]

Good Evening,
I want to replace the non BB OEM low lead genoa cars with Garhauer BB cars. The OEM cars frequently do not spin, despite lubing them. I'll be staying with pin stop cars. Garhauer recommended their LLC-2 car special ordered for 1" track. (CD carries them for the same price)

The Lewmar foot blocks are also plain sheaves on SS pin. I'm thinking about also replacing these with BB foot blocks.
Garhauer said to measure the blocks and choose one off their website that fits but I'm a little concerned about matching the bolt pattern.
Catalina Direct has a custom made foot block that matches the Lewmar bolt pattern and it has High Load Needle Bearings.

I'm hoping that these changes will help with winching in the genoa sheets.

I'm sure somebody with an early 90's C30 has changed out their low lead genoa cars and Lewmar foot blocks. If so, what did you use?

Thanks
Ward

 

[Ted]

I'm hoping that these changes will help with winching in the genoa sheets.

Your difficulty winching in the genoa may also be contributed to undersized winches or winches that may need to be lubricated. Many boat manufacturers install winches that are not powerful enough for the task. I've even seen the same year and model boats being delivered with different winch sizes. You might want to figure out the load in the genoa sheet when using your smallest headsail. The small headsail will generate the greatest loads in the high wind conditions it was intended to be used in. Turning blocks, even when working properly, will contribute to reducing the effective power of any winch. I'd start by figuring out what the loads are to see if your existing winches are properly sized.

 

[Ward H]

Your difficulty winching in the genoa may also be contributed to undersized winches or winches that may need to be lubricated.

Good point. While the winches are due for servicing, operation seems fine. They are Lewmar ST 40s. I checked their and Andersons website and luckily the 40's appear to be correctly sized for my boat.
I'd rather start with new BB genoa cars and foot blocks for under $400 before spending $2500 for new winches.

It also doesn't help that I'm limited to an 8" winch handle due to a brace for the dodger. That's another easy to do fix.

 

[Ted]

It also doesn't help that I'm limited to an 8" winch handle due to a brace for the dodger. That's another easy to do fix.

There's your problem. If you are using an 8" winch handle instead of a 10" handle, you reduced the power ratio of your winch by 20%. Your 40:1 power ratio winches are now only providing you with a 32:1 ratio. Before you invest in other equipment, try using a 10" handle. That's what the winch companies use when they caluclate the power ratio for the specifications of their winches. A 32:1 power ratio for primary winches on a 30 foot boat would generally be considered undersized.

 

[Ward H]

@Ted
I knew I was missing out on some leverage by using the 8" instead of 10" but I had not put it together I was losing 10%.
The brace for the dodger bow prevents me from using the 10" handle but I believe I can move it enough to get the clearance I need.
I'll try that first. Many Thanks!

 

[Ted]

I knew I was missing out on some leverage by using the 8" instead of 10" but I had not put it together I was losing 10%.

Your power ratio is reduced by 20% not 10%. It's a big difference. Do whatever you can so that you're able to swing a 10" handle.

 

[Joe]

A 10" handle with a palm grip should give you the extra power.... you can ratchet if you lack clearance.... strip as much slack as you can by getting the driver to help.... i.e. slow the tack or gybe down a bit.

 

[Ward H]

you can ratchet if you lack clearance

Hi Joe,
I recently read a post in which the poster said that ratcheting a winch is hard on the paws and can lead to winch failure. Any thoughts on this?

2 speed winches if that matters.

Thanks
Ward

 

[Ted]

I recently read a post in which the poster said that ratcheting a winch is hard on the paws and can lead to winch failure. Any thoughts on this?

I seriously doubt that ratcheting a winch by changing the rotation direction would damage it. With a two speed winch, you do this all the time except you'll be doing it more frequently. If you're still worried about possible damage, buy a ratcheting winch handle. It will make trimming easier too because you wouldn't be switching from high to low to high gears constantly. The ratcheting winch handle will take care of the direction change without having the winch constantly alternate between the two power ratios of the winch.

 

[Joe]

Hi Joe,
I recently read a post in which the poster said that ratcheting a winch is hard on the paws and can lead to winch failure. Any thoughts on this?

2 speed winches if that matters.

Thanks
Ward73

Ward, I do have thoughts on that..... not good ones, though. If I couldn't ratchet my winches I'd have retired from sailing years ago since cranking them round and round is tough on this 73 year old body. Even if it was hard on them, which I've never heard, the pawls are easy and inexpensive to replace. In fact, your standard service kit for harken or Lewmar will include replacement pawls.

I'm curious who made that comment. Was it a factory rep? Was there a condition in the warranty that recommended not ratcheting? How on earth do you make minor trim adjustments to halyards and sheets while steering? Nah.... if it were detrimental to the winch to ratchet, then you shouldn't strip the line in by hand.... essentially "free wheeling" … Save your body..... use the ratchet feature to make it easier.... that's what the winch is for... to help you.

 

[Ward H]

I'm curious who made that comment.

It was a poster here on the forum who has a lot of experience. I did find it odd.

I do have a 10" handle with palm grip. I'll start using that and move the dodger brace to get clearance.

 

[Kingjim91]

Does anyone have experience with low lead cars? Is there a significant advantage over standard swivel blocks?

 

[DrJudyB]

Does anyone have experience with low lead cars? Is there a significant advantage over standard swivel blocks?

The height of the block is a consideration because it affects the angle at which the sheet hits the winch. The angle should be 8 degrees +/- 2 degrees to avoid overwraps and, according to manufacturers, damage to the winch.

There may be other significant differences, but I can’t think of them. Maybe lower lead blocks catch fewer lines....

 

[Ward H]

On my 93 MKII the low lead blocks appear to be original. I have a jib track that runs alongside the cabin top and a foot block behind the winch to turn the sheet to the winch. That keeps the proper angle to the winch.
I think using standup blocks will raise the sheets where you step into the cockpit, (tripping hazard?) may affect alignment into the foot block and the taller blocks could hit the cabin side and ports if the sheets were flapping.

Here's the response I received from @weekendrken when I asked the same question over on the C30 groups.io forum.

"I got both the LLC-2 and Track Car Single Block(s) 30-40. I’ve switched off ;-). Can’t decide 100% which I like better but I think I get a fairer lead with the TCSB and use that nearly exclusively. The LLC doesn’t seem to flop correctly (enough?) and the sheet rubs on the side. But that’s on a mk-1 so it may be different on primary winch locations?

Mk-1 didn’t have foot blocks"

 

[Ward H]

Update
I installed the new Garhauer BB Low Lead Genoa cars and moved the dodger brace to give me clearance for the 10" winch handle with speed knob on it.
The BB cars helped but the 10" winch handle made the huge improvement @Ted and @Joe indicated.
Thanks

 

[Ted]

Glad to hear about the improved performance of your winches.