losses Backstay

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J

Jake Landreneau

I have recently purchased a Venture 2-22. However I noticed when stepping the mast I have to lossen the forestay almost completely and pull down in the cable while somebody pushes on the mast to get the pin in to attach the forestay. Once attached the tension on the rig is fair. Except for the backstay which has about 6 inchs of slack in it. I am unsure of what to do? Should I crank down on the forestay to get the backstay tight? Thank you, Jake
 
J

Jake Landreneau

I have recently purchased a Venture 2-22. However I noticed when stepping the mast I have to lossen the forestay almost completely and pull down in the cable while somebody pushes on the mast to get the pin in to attach the forestay. Once attached the tension on the rig is fair. Except for the backstay which has about 6 inchs of slack in it. I am unsure of what to do? Should I crank down on the forestay to get the backstay tight? Thank you, Jake
 

Timo42

.
Mar 26, 2007
1,042
Venture 22 Marina del Rey
The forestay sounds about right,

may be even a little loose, I attach the jib halyard first and cleatit off loose and stand on it to pull the mast forward. The shrouds are what hold the mast back, maybe too tight? Is the mast vertical or raked back? I have an adjustable backstay on mine and usually it is just snug. A Loos guage isn't expensive and will help with setup. Tim
 

Timo42

.
Mar 26, 2007
1,042
Venture 22 Marina del Rey
The forestay sounds about right,

may be even a little loose, I attach the jib halyard first and cleatit off loose and stand on it to pull the mast forward. The shrouds are what hold the mast back, maybe too tight? Is the mast vertical or raked back? I have an adjustable backstay on mine and usually it is just snug. A Loos guage isn't expensive and will help with setup. Tim
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Fractional Rig Tuning

Hi Jake If you have a fractional rig (forestay attaches to mast below the masthead and swept back spreaders) then you need to reduce the variables and basically make the rig tight with a straight mast. When you get your rig set up, is the mast straight? Lie on the deck with your head just aft of the mast base and sight up the mast. You can expect to see the mast leaning aft, called mast rake. You can put a plumb bob on the main halyard and actually measure the rake in inches, but subtract the distance the main halyard sheave is holding the plumb line from the actual back edge of the mast. On my 26D I have approx 6 inches of rake. To adjust rake, you are basically going to need to cut your forestay or make a longer new one. The turnbuckle on the forestay may slightly affect rake, but requires a lot of other adjustments to the sidestays to actually do anything, so if you intend to use your current forestay, your rake is already determined for you by its cut length. Here is how I tune my rig. I remove the backstay completely (more on that later). I pin and tighten the forestay turnbuckle to mid range on the tbuckle travel. Now I start to tighten my sidestays. The sidestays need to be tightened equally to keep your mast straight. You may need to either tighten one side or loosen the opposite side to remove a bend. As you tighten the four wires of rig this way, the spreaders will haul aft on the mast and the rig will stand up nicely. When the rig is tight and the mast still straight, the rake you have is the rake built into the forestay wire length. How tight? The tightness of your rig will determine (among other things) how well your boat points to windward. The downside is that high tension accellerates wire wear and possible damage to the stay attach points. Slack wires are very dangerous due to snap loading as the loose wires load and unload. The rigs on D models I've seen that were tuned for fast sailing to windward (and my own D) are somewhat difficult to pin at the forestay even with the tbuckle completely loosened. The Backstay. The backstay is unnecessary to stand up the fractional rig on our boats. I have an adjustable backstay which I made from a small block and tackle. I shortened my backstay about 4 feet and swaged in an eye to attach the top of the block and tackle. I do not attach the backstay at set up time to keep the pesky backstay wire from snagging on the parts on the back of my boat. After I pin the forestay and tension the tbuckle, I set up and tension the adjustable block and tackle on the backstay. Good luck and post pics John S
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Fractional Rig Tuning

Hi Jake If you have a fractional rig (forestay attaches to mast below the masthead and swept back spreaders) then you need to reduce the variables and basically make the rig tight with a straight mast. When you get your rig set up, is the mast straight? Lie on the deck with your head just aft of the mast base and sight up the mast. You can expect to see the mast leaning aft, called mast rake. You can put a plumb bob on the main halyard and actually measure the rake in inches, but subtract the distance the main halyard sheave is holding the plumb line from the actual back edge of the mast. On my 26D I have approx 6 inches of rake. To adjust rake, you are basically going to need to cut your forestay or make a longer new one. The turnbuckle on the forestay may slightly affect rake, but requires a lot of other adjustments to the sidestays to actually do anything, so if you intend to use your current forestay, your rake is already determined for you by its cut length. Here is how I tune my rig. I remove the backstay completely (more on that later). I pin and tighten the forestay turnbuckle to mid range on the tbuckle travel. Now I start to tighten my sidestays. The sidestays need to be tightened equally to keep your mast straight. You may need to either tighten one side or loosen the opposite side to remove a bend. As you tighten the four wires of rig this way, the spreaders will haul aft on the mast and the rig will stand up nicely. When the rig is tight and the mast still straight, the rake you have is the rake built into the forestay wire length. How tight? The tightness of your rig will determine (among other things) how well your boat points to windward. The downside is that high tension accellerates wire wear and possible damage to the stay attach points. Slack wires are very dangerous due to snap loading as the loose wires load and unload. The rigs on D models I've seen that were tuned for fast sailing to windward (and my own D) are somewhat difficult to pin at the forestay even with the tbuckle completely loosened. The Backstay. The backstay is unnecessary to stand up the fractional rig on our boats. I have an adjustable backstay which I made from a small block and tackle. I shortened my backstay about 4 feet and swaged in an eye to attach the top of the block and tackle. I do not attach the backstay at set up time to keep the pesky backstay wire from snagging on the parts on the back of my boat. After I pin the forestay and tension the tbuckle, I set up and tension the adjustable block and tackle on the backstay. Good luck and post pics John S
 
J

Jake

Loose backstay

I meant loose, sorry. The mast does appear to be raked back, but I have not measured it, I will though. It is not a fractional rig, but I will try tuning it. Should I put adustable backstay? Thanks, Jake
 
J

Jake

Loose backstay

I meant loose, sorry. The mast does appear to be raked back, but I have not measured it, I will though. It is not a fractional rig, but I will try tuning it. Should I put adustable backstay? Thanks, Jake
 
Apr 21, 2006
13
Macgregor 26X Pirates Cove, Alabama
tight forestay on a 26X

I was concerned my standing rigging was too loose and picked up a LOOS GAUGE for a fix. Sure enough, the recommended 300lb &200lb loads for the uppers and lowers respectively were way down. However, this made engaging the forestay pin almost an impossibility, until I hit upon this idea: Bring the unattached backstay around to the bow, attach a length of 1/4" line to it and either have a second pair of hands to carefully pull it until the pin can be popped into place, or simply tie it off to your pull vehicle, or other,then tighten with a truckers knot or a suitable ratchet. Again, I only have experience doing this with my 26X Cheers, Ron
 
Apr 21, 2006
13
Macgregor 26X Pirates Cove, Alabama
tight forestay on a 26X

I was concerned my standing rigging was too loose and picked up a LOOS GAUGE for a fix. Sure enough, the recommended 300lb &200lb loads for the uppers and lowers respectively were way down. However, this made engaging the forestay pin almost an impossibility, until I hit upon this idea: Bring the unattached backstay around to the bow, attach a length of 1/4" line to it and either have a second pair of hands to carefully pull it until the pin can be popped into place, or simply tie it off to your pull vehicle, or other,then tighten with a truckers knot or a suitable ratchet. Again, I only have experience doing this with my 26X Cheers, Ron
 
Apr 21, 2006
13
Macgregor 26X Pirates Cove, Alabama
tight forestay on a 26X

I was concerned my standing rigging was too loose and picked up a LOOS GAUGE for a fix. Sure enough, the recommended 300lb &200lb loads for the uppers and lowers respectively were way down. However, this made engaging the forestay pin almost an impossibility, until I hit upon this idea: Bring the unattached backstay around to the bow, attach a length of 1/4" line to it and either have a second pair of hands to carefully pull it until the pin can be popped into place, or simply tie it off to your pull vehicle, or other,then tighten with a truckers knot or a suitable ratchet. Again, I only have experience doing this with my 26X Cheers, Ron
 
Apr 21, 2006
13
Macgregor 26X Pirates Cove, Alabama
tight forestay on a 26X

I was concerned my standing rigging was too loose and picked up a LOOS GAUGE for a fix. Sure enough, the recommended 300lb &200lb loads for the uppers and lowers respectively were way down. However, this made engaging the forestay pin almost an impossibility, until I hit upon this idea: Bring the unattached backstay around to the bow, attach a length of 1/4" line to it and either have a second pair of hands to carefully pull it until the pin can be popped into place, or simply tie it off to your pull vehicle, or other,then tighten with a truckers knot or a suitable ratchet. Again, I only have experience doing this with my 26X Cheers, Ron
 
J

Jake

The recommend rig loads

What is the recommended load for the backstay, forestay, and shrouds of a Venture 2-22?
 
J

Jake

The recommend rig loads

What is the recommended load for the backstay, forestay, and shrouds of a Venture 2-22?
 
Apr 25, 2005
410
Macgregor Venture 25 My Backyard
No Tim.... I think if is stock....

it is a fractional rig. The Forestay only goes 3/4 up the mast. It is a fractional. A Masthead rig would be the forestay going all the way to the top of the mast as well as the backstay. By the way. We are interested in the rudder. Gregg
 
Apr 25, 2005
410
Macgregor Venture 25 My Backyard
No Tim.... I think if is stock....

it is a fractional rig. The Forestay only goes 3/4 up the mast. It is a fractional. A Masthead rig would be the forestay going all the way to the top of the mast as well as the backstay. By the way. We are interested in the rudder. Gregg
 

Timo42

.
Mar 26, 2007
1,042
Venture 22 Marina del Rey
I used the

recommendations that came with the guage, which seemed very tight, but I have all new rigging with turnbuckles and stalock fittings, if your rigging is old I would go on the low end, the important thing is to have it even and the mast straight, and nothing too loose when tacking on the leeward side. Tim Gregg it's a 222 same as mine, I'll save the rudder for you, my brother is going up in a couple of weeks.
 

Timo42

.
Mar 26, 2007
1,042
Venture 22 Marina del Rey
I used the

recommendations that came with the guage, which seemed very tight, but I have all new rigging with turnbuckles and stalock fittings, if your rigging is old I would go on the low end, the important thing is to have it even and the mast straight, and nothing too loose when tacking on the leeward side. Tim Gregg it's a 222 same as mine, I'll save the rudder for you, my brother is going up in a couple of weeks.
 
Apr 25, 2005
410
Macgregor Venture 25 My Backyard
His is a 25, but the rudder should be the same

length. Can you measure it's length from tiller to bottom of the rudder. I know the keels are the same, so it seems that the rudder should be the same as well. Thanks,
 
Apr 25, 2005
410
Macgregor Venture 25 My Backyard
His is a 25, but the rudder should be the same

length. Can you measure it's length from tiller to bottom of the rudder. I know the keels are the same, so it seems that the rudder should be the same as well. Thanks,
 
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