I had an interesting experience yesterday, the first time I sailed my newly purchased Hunter in 12 + Knot winds. I had an inexperienced helmsman, which contributed somewhat to getting the boat into a severe lean, 45 degrees plus. We lost all helm. Fotunately, she slowly weathered to windward and would straighten up. I figure the rudder was pretty much out of the water, hence lose of helm. Obviously, one must keep her from going over so far, but it did surprise me to loose all helm control. If anyone else has had this experience, I would appreciate their comments. Thanks, chaos
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been there, done that
I have a 30' boat. A couple of months ago, I took my boss out. T-storms were isolated - scattered and we had a good clearing to do some nice sailing. Unfortunately, on the lee side of an island (we could not see the wind coming) we nearly had a knock down with full sails. A 35 mph straight line wind came across the beam while we were close hauled and we went over far! The T-storms were surpisingly far away to produce such a gust. . . we are both instrument pilots and considered our location safe. I started the engine right away, and told my crew to let the sheets go and start pulling in sails. Thinking quickly, my boss put the furling line on the winch and was able to get the jib in, but as I was able to power her into the wind, we got overpowered and flattened twice. At one point, the prop sprayed water behind the boat. Yes, the rudder was out of the water and the prop could not grab either - - very scary!! 2 other boats got hit with it badly after us and all we could see/hear was luffing sails, bottom paint, & crew scrambling! I never took the extra seconds to see how far we were heeled, but it must have been at least 45 degrees. I'd guess a bit more. None of this was intentional like you were doing, but I'll repeat what a very experienced cruiser used to tell me: "if you're heeling, you're doing it wrong."
I have a 30' boat. A couple of months ago, I took my boss out. T-storms were isolated - scattered and we had a good clearing to do some nice sailing. Unfortunately, on the lee side of an island (we could not see the wind coming) we nearly had a knock down with full sails. A 35 mph straight line wind came across the beam while we were close hauled and we went over far! The T-storms were surpisingly far away to produce such a gust. . . we are both instrument pilots and considered our location safe. I started the engine right away, and told my crew to let the sheets go and start pulling in sails. Thinking quickly, my boss put the furling line on the winch and was able to get the jib in, but as I was able to power her into the wind, we got overpowered and flattened twice. At one point, the prop sprayed water behind the boat. Yes, the rudder was out of the water and the prop could not grab either - - very scary!! 2 other boats got hit with it badly after us and all we could see/hear was luffing sails, bottom paint, & crew scrambling! I never took the extra seconds to see how far we were heeled, but it must have been at least 45 degrees. I'd guess a bit more. None of this was intentional like you were doing, but I'll repeat what a very experienced cruiser used to tell me: "if you're heeling, you're doing it wrong."
"Rounding Up"
You just described rounding up quite well. It is the natural consequence of too much sail, and/or sails to tightly trimmed. The rudder need not be all the way out of the water, but at a 45 degree heel (lean) it is trying to lift the stern up just as hard as it is trying to turn it. Keeping the heel at 15 degrees or less will keep your boat moving faster. The first way to do this is to trim the sails. Flatten the main, lower the traveler (if you have one) and ease the main sheet. If this is not enough, then it is time to reef - make your sails smaller. David Lady Lillie Flatten the main by: Tightening the mainsheet, vang, outhaul, halyard, and cunningham if you have these controls in the minimum combination that gets the job done.
You just described rounding up quite well. It is the natural consequence of too much sail, and/or sails to tightly trimmed. The rudder need not be all the way out of the water, but at a 45 degree heel (lean) it is trying to lift the stern up just as hard as it is trying to turn it. Keeping the heel at 15 degrees or less will keep your boat moving faster. The first way to do this is to trim the sails. Flatten the main, lower the traveler (if you have one) and ease the main sheet. If this is not enough, then it is time to reef - make your sails smaller. David Lady Lillie Flatten the main by: Tightening the mainsheet, vang, outhaul, halyard, and cunningham if you have these controls in the minimum combination that gets the job done.
rounding up
David, Thanks for the comments. Advice well taken and roger on the trim. The traveler on this boat is very awkward to operate. What type of traveler do you have on your 26.5? thanks, Chaos
David, Thanks for the comments. Advice well taken and roger on the trim. The traveler on this boat is very awkward to operate. What type of traveler do you have on your 26.5? thanks, Chaos
Heavy wind--Sail trumps rudder
As winds increase in intensity, your rudder loses its relative effectiveness. When I'm trimming, our skipper has too often reminded me of that. When we go from bouy to bouy in heavy air, its the sail and their trim that are steering the boat. Mark
As winds increase in intensity, your rudder loses its relative effectiveness. When I'm trimming, our skipper has too often reminded me of that. When we go from bouy to bouy in heavy air, its the sail and their trim that are steering the boat. Mark
Chaos
We have a '77 h27, with a traveler in the aft end of the cockpit, behind the tiller attachment to the rudder. That's a great place to control the main, it does interfere a little with the cockpit, but we seat 4 with little disruption. David Lady Lillie
We have a '77 h27, with a traveler in the aft end of the cockpit, behind the tiller attachment to the rudder. That's a great place to control the main, it does interfere a little with the cockpit, but we seat 4 with little disruption. David Lady Lillie
sfsweg
Mark, Good job. What you describe is a well balanced boat manageable in almost all situations. t took my partner and me several years to master it.
Mark, Good job. What you describe is a well balanced boat manageable in almost all situations. t took my partner and me several years to master it.
Nearly on the rocks
I had a similar loss of control once. A dark cloud approached from the east with little warning and I got caught sailing too close to a rocky dam. As hard as I tried to head up to come about, the boat would not make the turn. Finally out of desperation, I lowered the motor and powered out to make help the boat come into the wind with only a few feet to spare before making a rock landing. Needless to say , my wife will not let me near the dam again.
I had a similar loss of control once. A dark cloud approached from the east with little warning and I got caught sailing too close to a rocky dam. As hard as I tried to head up to come about, the boat would not make the turn. Finally out of desperation, I lowered the motor and powered out to make help the boat come into the wind with only a few feet to spare before making a rock landing. Needless to say , my wife will not let me near the dam again.
Mark
you say that "As hard as I tried to head up to come about, the boat would not make the turn." What exactly did you try? The reason for asking this question is not to berate or second guess you, but rather to point out that many skippers will get stuck in similar circumstances and not be able to use the engine for whatever reason. Knowing how your boat responds to varying wind conditions with different sail combinations is vital information that you should have. In your case, it might have been prudent to flatten the main with outhaul, vang, mainsheet and backstay while dropping the traveler and lowering the jib. This sail combination will drive the boat with minimal heel and allow the boat to come about easily in the windy conditions.
you say that "As hard as I tried to head up to come about, the boat would not make the turn." What exactly did you try? The reason for asking this question is not to berate or second guess you, but rather to point out that many skippers will get stuck in similar circumstances and not be able to use the engine for whatever reason. Knowing how your boat responds to varying wind conditions with different sail combinations is vital information that you should have. In your case, it might have been prudent to flatten the main with outhaul, vang, mainsheet and backstay while dropping the traveler and lowering the jib. This sail combination will drive the boat with minimal heel and allow the boat to come about easily in the windy conditions.
Underpowered with lots of windage
As the former owner of a Catalina 30 w/11 HP engine, I can attest to the imposability of "comming through the wind" when the wind speed is over around 25 knots. The boat windage was just too much for the rudder and engine combo. Sooooo, just jibe instead. Jibing INTO a lee shore can be quite exciting!
As the former owner of a Catalina 30 w/11 HP engine, I can attest to the imposability of "comming through the wind" when the wind speed is over around 25 knots. The boat windage was just too much for the rudder and engine combo. Sooooo, just jibe instead. Jibing INTO a lee shore can be quite exciting!
Congrats, by getting through that you now know what your boat will do and you will be a more comfortable sailor! A few years ago we took our old 26 footer out on the Bay and did much the same thing between The Gate and Angel Island, but we did it on purpose to know the limits of the boat. Now you know how to sail using the sails as control, not the rudder!!
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