I'm new to sailboating and my lifelinese are loose even with fully tightened turnbuckles. I want them tighter. Can I get them shortened? What to do?
Loose Lifelines
- Thread starter bnort3
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You can usually get shorter turnbuckles, but I'm not sure about in lifeline sizes. Otherwise, maybe just cut one terminal off and put a new one on.
Absolutely...if they are 'abused'. That term references; people sitting on them, pulling on them, pushing away from docking crashes, pulling up when climbing aboard, tying things to them, etc.
After enough of this, they will stretch beyond the turnbuckles' capacity to shorten them up. In a salt water environment, that time period will normally correspond to the time period required for crevice corrosion in the swages and particularly under the cover to make them unsafe.
...Change them!!!!
And when you replace them, I recommend that you seriously consider using bare wire. There should be plenty of discussion on this topic in the archives. I used clear-coated stainless wire when replacing the safety lines on our Cal 27-T/2 (because they had stretched excessively and were over 10 years old) and I could see rust under the cover at the ends in less than a year.
If you look at the routing of the lifelines you will see that they don't run in a straight line. They change direction at each stanchion. When they are tight they are trying to pull the stanchions into a straight line. when they are loaded by people or accident they pull very hard on the stanchions. We use wire rope because it doesn't stretch. My lifelines used to be my fore and back stays. A bit heavier than usual but nothing too strong ever broke. If the lifelines are loose something moved but the wire didn't stretch.
Consider to change them to 'super high strength synthetic/polymer lines' ... such as Amsteel or other super strength, UV compatible, 12 strand braid. (Sorry, the SBO online chandleries is closed today so I cant provide a link.)
Instead of 'turnbuckles', you attach high strength polymer lines to the anchor points with 'lashings' (if you were a boy scout you already know how to do a 'lashing'.).
Instead of 'turnbuckles', you attach high strength polymer lines to the anchor points with 'lashings' (if you were a boy scout you already know how to do a 'lashing'.).
I agree with RichH. Some of the high tech lines are as strong as steel and don't even stretch as much. There is even a company that makes deadeyes for them.
http://www.precourt.ca/
http://www.precourt.ca/
Get new ones. I went with exactly the same wire as is used for mast stays and have found it very attractive and just as kind to hands and other things as the plastic coated kind. It looks better and is better wire than the cheap stuff they hide inside the plastic. Stainless becomes unreliable when air and oxygen are kept away from it so the plastic coated stuff should never be used.
I had the same kind of bails used for the gate openings installed on the forward ends and use lashings of 1/8" nylon. Much kinder to the jib and hands than turnbuckles. They get the lifelines plenty tight and have more take up.
The various high tech ropes discussed in other responses work well I'm sure but I don't think you can beat metal for resistance to chafe and sunlight. The bare metal looks way better to my eyes than the white plastic ever did.
I am going to strip the plastic off the lifelines this weekend and take my stancheions off and get them powder coated. I don't think the grade stainless catalina used in 1979 is the same as anyone is using today. The stern rail, bow pulpit, all of it rusts too much compared to the boats around mine. and those boats are by no means new.
Where can you get lifeline netting cheap? I would like to have polyester but nylon seems the most popular.
Where can you get lifeline netting cheap? I would like to have polyester but nylon seems the most popular.
With all due respect Ross, I don't believe that it is entirely accurate to say that wire rope does not stretch. All wire stretches under load to some extent. There are two components, permanent stretch and elastic stretch and there are ample sources for the rig designer to secure formulae for the calculation of either. Permanent stretch occurs after manufacture in the initial loading and then is not much of a factor thereafter. Elastic stretch is dynamic and the wire returns to its pre-loading length when the load is removed.
Using retired stays for your lifelines is, in effect, using pre-stretched wire and you are essentially correct is saying they won't stretch in that application. In that diameter, it will also not exhibit elastic stretch at loads that would, as you say, move something else.
However, lifeline wire is not rated for the loads that stays are and unless preloaded and adjusted by the factory (unlikely in an older production boat), the owner will likely need to adjust it after it achieves full permanent stretch. While the stanchions will flex, they will not necessarily be bent permanently while this stretching occurs.
New stays and shrouds, likewise, have to be adjusted after initial loading unless pre-stressed. I believe that some rigging companies perform this service, but haven't checked that as fact.
Here are a couple of links for more technical information as a start if anyone is interested in researching the issue
http://tinyurl.com/lp6o5l
http://www.s3i.co.uk/wiretehnical.php
http://tinyurl.com/n9p3cu
This from the second link:
Stretch is a characteristic of all wire ropes; constructional stretch initially (as the individual wires 'bed down') and then as conventional elastic stretch.
This permanent stretch can be as much as 0.1% for a 1x19 strand.
0.1% of 30 feet is .360 inches. That is not enough to account for a closed turnbuckle.
For practical purposes lifelines made with wire rope do not stretch enough to explain the problem OP has.
Again, we don't really disagree, but again I think not entirely accurate. The stretch ratio is not the same in all wire rope but is a function of the diameter. For 30' of small craft lifeline, that number would be more on the order of .83". While this small amount of stretch is not enough on its own to result in excessive sag, coupled with other factors it could be significant.
On top of the initial stretch, a lifeline that has been abused over a number of years is likely to have a significant number broken strands hidden under the cover...I've seen this on numerous occasions after stripping off the cover. If there are sufficient number of broken strands, the line will elongate substantially (as we have agreed that it doesn't stretch). This can occur without any perceptible damage to the stanchions or terminus fixtures, but results in a severely weakend lifeline.
My stubbornness in making this point is that as a safety issue, if lifelines are sagging beyond the capacity of the turnbuckle to adjust, they should be replaced and we sailors shouldn't think that perhaps straightening a leaning stanchion or a bent pulpit will "fix the problem".
This is also the meat of the reasoning behind the recommandations for use of bare lines...meathooks are your 'empty' warning.
Chris, Since the OP hasn't given us any new data concerning the condition of the lifelines it is probably reasonable to presume that the lines are as deteriorated as you suggest. The covers would also be a mess. 1-19 SS rigging wire is for my mind perfect for lifelines and it needs no cover. The cost difference in the sizes is relativly small given the lengths involved so I would use a larger size.. The forestay on any boat gets very hard use with the sail pulling on it.
There is probably something quite wrong on the OP's lifeline system for things to have changed to this extent.
There is probably something quite wrong on the OP's lifeline system for things to have changed to this extent.
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