Loose-Footed, or Solid Footed Main?

[Simon Sexton]

Hey Guys,

Good morning everyone! I just wanted to ask, since the time is coming soon, which type of mains'l I should replace my current one with; the sail I have right now is the original one that came with the boat in 1984, and it's functional, but really worn and stretched, and is practically useless without the genoa. I'm going with a tri-radial sail with full battens, but I'm debating whether or not to switch to a loose-foot or a foot with a bolt rope to run the boom like the current sail. Any preferences?

God Bless,
S.S.

 

[JohnShannon]

style du jour seems to be loose footed. I think maybe the shape of the sail is better that way. I suppose it all things being equal it is easier to make so maybe also save s dollar or two.

 

[FastOlson]

Loose Foot mains became common in the 80's. (That's a long time ago.)
They have advantages in shape adjustment.
While most sailmakers will give you what you say you want (within reason), since they like paying their bills and keeping your business, there is little reason to have one now.
This was one of those "changes" that was good for sail shape and saved some money.

You say that you have decided to go with full battens. Not to try an change your mind, but those were another idea that was wonderful for a few boat designs, like the Hobie's, but led to further expenditures on many larger sailboats when owners found that the limit to flogging (a good thing) was more than offset by the near-requirement for a low friction "Strongtrack" and special batten cars. A very spendy solution.
By the 90's a compromise in sail design avoided 90% of the flogging and 90% of the former reason to add the plastic track. This was - and is - the "two plus two" batten scheme. The two top battens are full length, and the two lower ones are long, but stop way short of the front of the sail.

So make yourself happy, but be aware that some of your expenditures are not needed, and also that some will provoke further expenditures.

And on the off chance that you get advice from a friend that a loose foot sail will be "weak" because it is attached only at the clew... which seems sort of intuitive when you look at old boats with slugs all along their foot, remember that when the breeze rises to 15 to 18 and you pull in the first reef, ALL of the tension of the new foot will be taken easily at one point: that reef clew ring and the extra layers of reinforcing material it is pressed into.
Same thing for the heavy air that will beset that sail when you take the occasional second reef, at the higher reinforced clew.

Fair winds!

 

[SG]

If you have a Catalina 25, tall rig, then I'd just go with a conventionally battened sail. That's really not that big a main.

I would definitely go loose footed for a variety of reasons stated by others above.

 

[Stu Jackson]

sort of intuitive when you look at old boats with slugs all along their foot

Great advice and much food for thought. In a way, that's yet another option, isn't it? Three options: Loose foot, "captured" bolt rope or slugs in the foot track on the boom.
In all of the times this comes up, one should be reminded that no matter what choice you make, especially for loose foot and slugs, it is essential that your outhaul be in working order. (With a bolt rope, my outhaul hasn't been working for 18 years and I've managed to survive. You simply can't do that with the other two options.)
I also have full battens but my PO installed a Harken batt car system. Loren's right, battens require a track system, there are one or two other track options out there.
Have you asked on the C25 forum? Having owned a C25 for 13 years, I can find little reason to go to full battens on that size mainsail.
Happy decision making.

 

[thinwater]

...And on the off chance that you get advice from a friend that a loose foot sail will be "weak" because it is attached only at the clew... which seems sort of intuitive when you look at old boats with slugs all along their foot, remember that when the breeze rises to 15 to 18 and you pull in the first reef, ALL of the tension of the new foot will be taken easily at one point: that reef clew ring and the extra layers of reinforcing material it is pressed into.
Same thing for the heavy air that will beset that sail when you take the occasional second reef, at the higher reinforced clew....

And someone on the thread will still bring it up.

That said, the attachment point to the boom often needs some beefing, since an attached foot does spread the force along a two slides or so. The simple solution, is what you do when you reef (a line under the boom), though the modern version is called a clew strap.

 

[markwbird]

Loos as a Goose. better shape and easier to handle.

 

[JohnShannon]

Tides Marine Strong Track is I think the low cost low friction option for a fully battened main. Way less expensive than Harken and worked well on my boat.

 

[SG]

The bolt rope really is intended (as are slugs) to take little if any load. The tack of the clew really should be able to handle the load at the goose neck or it was very not correctly designed, or it's defective.

I believe that the out hauls on many boats have problems -- either because there is not got enough mechanical advantage on the system, or it can't overcome the foot friction enough (to tighten or loosen), or the block is frozen. If you don't use your out haul, for whatever reason, then you could tie it at a predetermined position with a strap or fixed line (usually looped smaller diameter lines) that some people use on very small boats.

Installing Harken, Antal, Strong Marine tracks tracks on a Catalina 25 seems, like a fully battened sail, like overkill. IF you are committed to a full batten approach, then ONLY do the lower one or two battens.

 

[JRT]

I thought 2 full at the top is the recommended vs partial at the bottom 2, my North Sail came that way and when I looked at new main options the lofts recommended only 2 full at the top.

 

[Stu Jackson]

either because there is not got enough mechanical advantage on the system, or it can't overcome the foot friction enough (to tighten or loosen), or the block is frozen.

Or, like on most Catalinas, the blocks they put inside the boom are swiveling ones, instead of fixed ones. THAT'S the big problem, 'cuz the lines get jammed!!!

 

[cb32863]

style du jour seems to be loose footed. I think maybe the shape of the sail is better that way. I suppose it all things being equal it is easier to make so maybe also save s dollar or two.

It is not a style choice, it is proven to provide better sail shape and performance. Go with a Velcro strap at the clew as well. I got my main with the 2+2 battens as well.

 

[Meriachee]

Or, like on most Catalinas, the blocks they put inside the boom are swiveling ones, instead of fixed ones. THAT'S the big problem, 'cuz the lines get jammed!!!

Never noticed Probably because every spring there was a tug o war going on when the boom got installed, and the bloody thing never worked right anyway. Having removed all that junk and putting a 4:1 between the mast plate and the boom resolved that.
Even with the bolt rope attached to the sail, the sail shape is -way- better operating as a loose foot, even though the sail was never designed for it.

 

[JRT]

It is not a style choice, it is proven to provide better sail shape and performance. Go with a Velcro strap at the clew as well. I got my main with the 2+2 battens as well.

How does the Velcro strap at the clew attach, boom, mast, diagonal?

 

[SG]

Our's keeps the clew "down" closer to the boom ; and the out haul moves the clew aft or allows the clew to be pulled forward by the wind pressure. The Velcro (-like) material is sewed to a Spectra strap on our 900-ish SF main.

 

[Meriachee]

How does the Velcro strap at the clew attach, boom, mast, diagonal?

It goes around the boom as such:

 

[JRT]

Dang I'm an idiot, I mixed up Clew and Tack in my head...

 

[Meriachee]

Dang I'm an idiot, I mixed up Clew and Tack in my head...

I've heard that those 25's sail as well backwards as forwards.

 

[JRT]

I've had a few times that went backwards faster then forward...

 

[Joe]

One commong mainsail option is to have a "foot shelf" attached to the lower edge of the sail. This is a lighter, non load bearing panel of sailcloth that connects the boom and the sail's foot. When the outhaul is eased and the draft deepens the shelf will fill in the gap between foot and boom. When the outhaul is tensioned to flatten the lower section, the shelf folds up and allows the sail's foot to snug up against the boom.

That said.... if you study computer images of a mainsail... you'll see the highest loads are on the corners, especially head and clew.... that's why they are heavily reinforced.