Loose footed main

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paulj

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Mar 16, 2007
1,361
Catalina 310 Anacortes,Wa
Don
What would it take to convert an existing bolt rope footed main sail to a loose footed mainsail?
A 2002 Catalina 310.

paulj :troll:
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Easier done than said.
Remove the slugs from the boom, install a stronger slug (or 1-2 more slugs) near the clew and you have a loose footed sail ... not supremely pretty but will function exactly as a loose footed.
http://www.sailrite.com/Categories?search=clew+slug is an example of a 'stronger' slug used at the clew.

Sometimes all thats needed to convert is to 'slash off' the 'shelf foot section' of the sail, apply a new panel to the foot but leaving the former tack and clew hardware. If you can leave the tack & clew cringles, etc. the job will be much cheaper. To do this its best to have the original computer output data when the sail was made; but, a good sailmaker with a 'good eye' can do this without the computer data.
 
Jun 2, 2009
3
Macgregor 26S Fliskär, Gävle, Sweden
Hi,

I'm quite new to this and have a short question (which probably needs a long answer).

Why do you want a loose footed mainsail?

Just realized that this was my firs post. Long time lurking but no posts... Got to change that.

Regards
Johan
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Johan -
A loose footed mainsail is more easily adjusted - increases/decreases the amount of draft in the sail. All this to 'match' the wind wave conditions that you are sailing. Changing the draft also can be as simple as 'powering up' or 'depowering' the mainsail.

Don Guilettes "Sail Trim Users Guide", elegantly and simply explains all this (and most of all the other proper 'adjustments') ... a good investment for 'newbies' who want to sail their boats safely and 'to the max.'
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/category-books.htm?cat=1321

:)
 
May 17, 2004
2,111
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
PaulJ: Johan must be reading my mail as my first thought was why do you want to convert in the first place? RichH is right in that it is easier to adjust a loose footed main especially on older Catalina’s that have an internal outhaul system, which is poorly designed, and the main reason I personally went to an external setup.

The question becomes which is a better system – loose footed or bolt rope? The following opinions are my own and maybe a lot of mates will disagree but I’ll bet most have not spent as much time as I have in the study of both systems.

First, I don’t think there is a wits difference between the 2 systems. The best basis to my conclusion is which system do racers prefer? They are 70/30 (bolt/loose) split between the two systems. Beer can racing is not a good way to judge it but match racing is. In the Catalina30 National Regatta’s I’ve raced loose footed against bolt rope and vice versa and neither boat had the advantage. The deciding factor was WHO WAS THE BEST SAIL TRIMMER!! What I have noticed with loose footed guys is that they tend to induce too much draft depth (belly) into the mainsail, which is very easy to do. Too much of anything is not good for you.

At the Catalina30 events I feel we were just a bunch of common seaman fooling around. On the other hand, the Long Beach Congressional Cup sailors are a group of professional sailors from all over the world who race about 12 exact copy C37’s (I think they are 37’) in a match race format. About 9 of these boats are bolt rope and the rest loose footed. What I was looking for every year I watched them was the 2 boat match up of bolt rope against the loose footed and every time I saw this match up, which I watched from start to finish, I was looking for an advantage of one over the other and you know what I saw at the end of the race? Nothing. Sometimes the bolt rope won and sometimes the loose footed won. Through out the course they were neck and neck and that is the way they finished. Loose footed sails don’t win races or make you a better cruising sailor – sail trim does.

There is one more factor, which you see on America Cup boats, which are all bolt rope, and it is what is called the “shelf effect”. Their booms are long from top to bottom and the reason for it is that they are trying to capture as much air as they can and they don’t want any escaping. With loose footed mains, which are the engine on these boats, the air would escape.

Every cruising sailor and beer can racer I know thinks in the back of his mind that he really is Dennis Conner or Buddy Melges and they want their boat set up like these guys even though the shelf effect has no effect on a production boat. I know I’m right on how guys think about their boats.

So PaulJ, to answer your question, I’d stick with the bolt rope and really learn to use your mainsheet controls especially the outhaul but again that is just my opinion.
 

paulj

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Mar 16, 2007
1,361
Catalina 310 Anacortes,Wa
Don and RichH and johan_ande
The whole story

I want to install a UK Halsey Lazy Cradle or a Doyle Stackpack.

I have an existing Ducthman system for the mainsail and after dropping the mainsail ....the batts and sail droop over the boom as shown in this video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVEX4DCfCYE

I would prefer this... http://www.ukhalsey.com/LazyCradle/lazycradle.asp


The options
a. Sew craddle to mainsail and use exiting groove in boom.
b. Install bolt rope on each side of boom for cover and continue with bolt rope footed main.
c. Convert main to loose footed mainsail and use the groove on the boom for the cradle cover.

I like the "c" option.

So..............

This is why I asked the question about how to convert from a bolt rope to a loose footed mainsail.

I'm just an old cruiser trying to make things easy plus I need a new sail cover.
Thanks for taking the time for a very good reply to a half:ass: question.

paulj :troll:
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
There is a huge difference between a simple "bolt rope" foot, and a "shelf foot".

They both connect the full length of the boom, but the shelf foot has an small extra panel (shelf) that allows the foot to expand out without an open space between sail and boom.

Most sailmakers will install a shelf for a few extra bucks.

.......... I looked at the "lazy cradle" video and it appears to require two crew standing at the boom and mast to operate it plus someone on the halyard. If you want the cradle out of the way while saiing you have to tie it to the boom... How the heck does this make it easier for a single hander to manage his sail?
l
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
PaulJ -
I'd first try the sail with the stackpack but with all the boom slugs NOT in their slot ... only the far aft clew slug.
The Stackpack will cover the shelf foot section and 'may' because of its influence to the foot section of the sail .. may not need any alterations at all, ..... just a better quality single and stronger, etc. slug at the clew (listed in above posting).

If the sail (when 'loosefooted' with its present boltrope) takes a bad shape at along the foot and above the 'throat' of the Stackpack', then consider to have a sailmaker slash off (most of) the shelf foot and boltrope and apply a 'tape foot' to the sail but leaving the original cringles for the tack and clew. Dont know how your sail is constructed/cut but on most boltroped sails this is fairly easy to do. Besides, all the 'uglies' of such a conversion will be hidden INSIDE the 'Stackpack'.
 

paulj

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Mar 16, 2007
1,361
Catalina 310 Anacortes,Wa
RichH

Well I think I'm going with the loose footed sail design.
I received two quotes on the lazy craddle type system including converting the main to loose footed and installing.

One would incorperate the existing Duchman system in the lazy cradle about $2100.

The other one just the cradle alone $1500.

As soon as I improve on my mast gates design plates I will make the move.


Don
If I keep the cover up and not roll it down tight on the boom while sailing know one will know but the Shadow.

paulj :troll:
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I just looked at the UKHalsey pictures, and it looks like the same "lazy bag" (Beneteau calls it) on my boat. I'm only unhappy with it because rainwater filters down onto/into the sail, then dumps out when the sail is raised. Close the cabin ports, please. If the boom aft end can be lowered enough, the water should be able to exit off the aft end. Not possible to lower it on my boat, so I sewed in a curb-like fabric srtip under the zipper cover, and alongside the zipper. May have helped, but water still pools in the zipper area. The mainsail is loose-footed, so the bag has 5 or 6 slugs to hold it in the boom groove.... Also, I re-rigged the lazy jack lines to lead up to a halyard so I can tighten/loosen the bag from the cockpit. This way the bag falls away from the sail.... Also, I wonder where we could find a batten as long as the boom whenever one or two of them break?
 
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