Don; I am planning on buying a new fully battened mainsail for my Catalina 22. I have all the optional sail controls (outhaul, cunninghan, etc.)and a split backstay. My sailing is oriented towards the performance end and is usually single handed. I sail on a river, usually upwind with frequent tacts. The winds are usually in the 6 to 10 mph. range with a good chance of winds in the 18 to 25 mph about every 4 days sailing. What are the pro and cons of these different sails. Thanks, Ray
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One long two short
With a sail that size I don't think full battens are any advantage and may hurt sail shape. A single long batten to help increase roach the rest could be shorter. I'am intreasted in Don's comments.
With a sail that size I don't think full battens are any advantage and may hurt sail shape. A single long batten to help increase roach the rest could be shorter. I'am intreasted in Don's comments.
Bolt Rope/ Loose / Battens
Ray / Doug / Jon: First, I am not a sail maker but I have sailed all of the above. I may not be a sail maker but I do know what to look for when it comes to sail shape and I do know how hard it would be to get the correct shape with regular or full battens. This is my opinion. There is not a wits worth of difference between loose footed and bolt rope. I've matched raced (same boats head to head) and neither had the advantage. I'm not exactly sure in the batten department because I have not sailed enough with full battens but with what little experience I've had I don't think there is a wits bit of difference there either. The court for me is still out but I do not think the average sailor could tell the difference between the two, especially with a new sail. If you asked me what I would buy, it would be the bolt rope and regular battens. The reason why is not a good one. It is because that is what I'm used to. One other reason is that it is so easy to get the draft depth (too much belly) wrong with the loose foot sail. So, when sailors ask me what I think they should buy, I tell them to let their fellings (and pocket books) be their guide. I also tell them to have faith in their sailmaker - but make him support his recommendations. If possable, sail boats with both setups so you can make an informed buying decision. Once you buy it you get the Oklahoma guarantee - if it doesn't work to your satisfaction, falls apart etc you own it!!
Ray / Doug / Jon: First, I am not a sail maker but I have sailed all of the above. I may not be a sail maker but I do know what to look for when it comes to sail shape and I do know how hard it would be to get the correct shape with regular or full battens. This is my opinion. There is not a wits worth of difference between loose footed and bolt rope. I've matched raced (same boats head to head) and neither had the advantage. I'm not exactly sure in the batten department because I have not sailed enough with full battens but with what little experience I've had I don't think there is a wits bit of difference there either. The court for me is still out but I do not think the average sailor could tell the difference between the two, especially with a new sail. If you asked me what I would buy, it would be the bolt rope and regular battens. The reason why is not a good one. It is because that is what I'm used to. One other reason is that it is so easy to get the draft depth (too much belly) wrong with the loose foot sail. So, when sailors ask me what I think they should buy, I tell them to let their fellings (and pocket books) be their guide. I also tell them to have faith in their sailmaker - but make him support his recommendations. If possable, sail boats with both setups so you can make an informed buying decision. Once you buy it you get the Oklahoma guarantee - if it doesn't work to your satisfaction, falls apart etc you own it!!
Thanks Don. I'll go with the boltrope as
that's what I'm used to. Where we live finding a sailmaker rates up there with trusting retirement pension guarantees. The folks at Doyle on the coast did recommend increasing the roach and there is good room for that. The full battens are a considerable hike in price so I'll drop that. Again, thanks. Ray
that's what I'm used to. Where we live finding a sailmaker rates up there with trusting retirement pension guarantees. The folks at Doyle on the coast did recommend increasing the roach and there is good room for that. The full battens are a considerable hike in price so I'll drop that. Again, thanks. Ray
check the price difference.
Ray: Check the price on both options. I think you will find that you may find a nice savings of a loose footed main.
Ray: Check the price on both options. I think you will find that you may find a nice savings of a loose footed main.
one guy's experience
Three years ago I was racing my boat with the sails that came with it, trying to get better and learn something new each time out. Didn't do so hot in the spring series, but we were improving in small increments. That summer I bought new sails and decided to try a loose-footed, fully battened main, more out of curiosity than anything else. The boat was transformed - suddenly we were contending for the win in every race. Most of improvement was just due to having new sails, but I am convinced that the main is easier for me to read, and perhaps because of that I am really tuned in to what it is telling me. There is no doubt that my next main will be loose footed too. However, I have to say that the battens supplied by the sailmaker, or at least the top two, were much too stiff for all but very windy conditions. Now with some softer battens the sail shapes much better until the wind gets up.
Three years ago I was racing my boat with the sails that came with it, trying to get better and learn something new each time out. Didn't do so hot in the spring series, but we were improving in small increments. That summer I bought new sails and decided to try a loose-footed, fully battened main, more out of curiosity than anything else. The boat was transformed - suddenly we were contending for the win in every race. Most of improvement was just due to having new sails, but I am convinced that the main is easier for me to read, and perhaps because of that I am really tuned in to what it is telling me. There is no doubt that my next main will be loose footed too. However, I have to say that the battens supplied by the sailmaker, or at least the top two, were much too stiff for all but very windy conditions. Now with some softer battens the sail shapes much better until the wind gets up.
Mail Order Sails
Ray: You can buy some good sails by mail order. There is a company called Sail Warehouse (I think that's the name - all our records are in storage so I'm can't check) in No Ca that makes a good sail for the money. I bought a 135 jib from them and was very happy with it. North sail was much more expensive. I was going to use a local sail maker in Torrance but his back log was almost 6 months. Bolt rope vs loose footed: I know no one would do this but sailors should not make a decision based on what I say - inspect (listen to what I say) but verify!! My opinions expressed here are my own preferences. Loose footed may be the wave of the future for all I know.
Ray: You can buy some good sails by mail order. There is a company called Sail Warehouse (I think that's the name - all our records are in storage so I'm can't check) in No Ca that makes a good sail for the money. I bought a 135 jib from them and was very happy with it. North sail was much more expensive. I was going to use a local sail maker in Torrance but his back log was almost 6 months. Bolt rope vs loose footed: I know no one would do this but sailors should not make a decision based on what I say - inspect (listen to what I say) but verify!! My opinions expressed here are my own preferences. Loose footed may be the wave of the future for all I know.
main
i own capri 22, just bought new main. have bolt rope, two top battens with one reef. skipped the flattening reef, never used it. sail has nice shape. bought from local shop but am pretty sure it is the same sail maker the sail warehouse uses. "rolly tasker" from thailand. nice sail, price was right. keep in mind i do not race. what i have heard-loss foot you can loosen foot off the wind or flatten sail up wind. ask about foot shelf. keep in mind full battens will be harder to hoist as well.
i own capri 22, just bought new main. have bolt rope, two top battens with one reef. skipped the flattening reef, never used it. sail has nice shape. bought from local shop but am pretty sure it is the same sail maker the sail warehouse uses. "rolly tasker" from thailand. nice sail, price was right. keep in mind i do not race. what i have heard-loss foot you can loosen foot off the wind or flatten sail up wind. ask about foot shelf. keep in mind full battens will be harder to hoist as well.
Loose vs bolt
Anything a sailor can do to a loose footed he can do equally as easy to a bolt rope sail. Which ever set up one choices is just a personal preference. Sail both systems as I have with a critical eye towards ease of use and sail shape and you'll see what I mean.
Anything a sailor can do to a loose footed he can do equally as easy to a bolt rope sail. Which ever set up one choices is just a personal preference. Sail both systems as I have with a critical eye towards ease of use and sail shape and you'll see what I mean.
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