Looking to Start Sailing
- Thread starter LakeMan
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Not knowing what the shore (or foreshore) is like, given the lake is relatively shallow one might deduce the shore has a gentle slope, also since it is nowhere near the Rocky Mountains. Going along with the assumption of a shallow slope, one would really want a round-bottom boat as opposed to one with a keel to bring it up on the beach. Several of the pictures I've seen of larger boats in the 22-ft range have a keel that would be a significant problem in order to get close enough to the shore in order to slip a trailer, or some sort of trailer device, under the boat in order to wheel it up on the beach. A boat with a foot or so keel stub would be difficult.
Going back to the 16-footer, + or -, even a boat that size weighs enough that it might be a struggle especially if the shore is soft and the wheels sink in a bit, or if the shore isn't quite flat enough. The 16-ft Falcon we have weighs 425 lbs and some sort of trailer device will add at least a hundred or more pounds. We have a Harbor Freight two-wheel dolly and even it isn't very light weight. By the time one builds up some sort of dolly contraption with a long enough tongue to slip under the boat to pull it up with, that would add to the total weight of the package. Then adding a little outboard with fuel tank would add more weight. Heck, even our 3hp outboard weight would add to the package.
If the shore has a gentle slope then a small boat would be an advantage in order to bring it up on the beach. A steeper slope could potentially allow for a larger boat by being able to submerse the trailer under water for retrieving the boat, and then have a power winch secured to a tree or bollard.
From a cost and learning standpoint, I still like the 16-ft size, and like what was mentioned earlier, it doesn't have to be a pretty new boat. The two Catallina 16.5 boats seem one of the best options on Craigs List. No Cuddy so that's a bummer, but no keel stub so that's a plus.
Question: #1: What is the weight?
Question #2: would one be able to put it on a pickup with a rack???
Question #1.5: does the OP have a pickup?
Going back to the 16-footer, + or -, even a boat that size weighs enough that it might be a struggle especially if the shore is soft and the wheels sink in a bit, or if the shore isn't quite flat enough. The 16-ft Falcon we have weighs 425 lbs and some sort of trailer device will add at least a hundred or more pounds. We have a Harbor Freight two-wheel dolly and even it isn't very light weight. By the time one builds up some sort of dolly contraption with a long enough tongue to slip under the boat to pull it up with, that would add to the total weight of the package. Then adding a little outboard with fuel tank would add more weight. Heck, even our 3hp outboard weight would add to the package.
If the shore has a gentle slope then a small boat would be an advantage in order to bring it up on the beach. A steeper slope could potentially allow for a larger boat by being able to submerse the trailer under water for retrieving the boat, and then have a power winch secured to a tree or bollard.
From a cost and learning standpoint, I still like the 16-ft size, and like what was mentioned earlier, it doesn't have to be a pretty new boat. The two Catallina 16.5 boats seem one of the best options on Craigs List. No Cuddy so that's a bummer, but no keel stub so that's a plus.
Question: #1: What is the weight?
Question #2: would one be able to put it on a pickup with a rack???
Question #1.5: does the OP have a pickup?
I have my own private boat launch that is shallow but i have a pontoon boat that i launch off a trailer there just to give you an idea of what im dealing with.
Great boat to learn on. Easy to set up and sail. It's a "wet boat" meaning you will get spray and water in the boat so wear your swim suit or wet suit. A daysailer like that will allow you to learn to sail by the seat of your pants which will benefit you immensely through your sailing life.
Weighing a few factors here:
Distance: Given the number of boats that are NOT in your area, the Hobie cat (if that was the model) that was somewhat local, vs this one that is 327 miles and 5hr 32min away (more time due to the really small wheels, and who knows what the bearings are like), or 10hr to the Minneapolis area, there aren't exactly a lot of choices, are there. And ... the summer is wasting away.
Trailer tires: For any older trailer I'd be concerned about towing a long distance with older tires. Sitting out in the sun is not helpful. Research of tire ratings will provided maximum speed, and then there are the wheel bearings to be concerned about.
Boat size: Well ... it would be doable. Maybe I would say "might be doable". This depend a lot on ones agility and propensity to comfort. For the kids and teens at the Royal Victoria Yacht Club in Victoria, BC, this would be a perfect two person boat.
Grownups: Hmmm.... for me it would be *kinda* okay. I'm sure my wife is older than yours, not as agile anymore, and for her it would be a dealbreaker. As they say, "Your mileage may vary."
Swimming ability: What a difference a few feet makes. For us we would consider this more of a sport boat, and, our water never really warms up but you say your lake isn't necessarily that cold this time of year. Still, capsizing it then trying to climb back on could be a challenge for some, especially with two people. I would hate to swim with a lifejacket on. Definitely a human-ballasted boat and tipsy. For only 2-feet more the Catalina 16.5 would be a lot more boat.
Young, or young at heart: As we get older there can be a tendency to underestimate our abilities and endurance. It's been mentioned above about the importance of having the significant other on board and this would be a prime example. While I agree with the Hobie cat being a sport boat, in some ways this will be just as much of a sport boat. This would be a better boat to learn on; HOWEVER, given the distance, the cat being a lot closer, could POSSIBLY be an equal or maybe even a better option for two who are planning to be Seniors. Having said that, one option might be to get something like this for yourself for this year. Heck, what's $1,000??? Easy to launch and retrieve, good for this year and into next year, resale value, even if sold for $700 or 800, wouldn't be a bad for learning costs. It'd be a somewhat good learning platform for sailing solo but doable for two who still have some athletic abilities. This might be a boat one could use hiking straps on for human ballast.
Personal opinion: While it *could* work, my guess is it would be mostly your boat, but then I don't know either of you. A 16-footer like our old boat would be okay because it would be comfortable with freeboard, cockpit combing, beam for being less tipsy, easy to single hand even when two people are on board because the main sheet and jib sheets would be out of the way. The boom clearance would be a bit more. This would not be MY first choice but a 10-hour drive (one way) is a Looooong drive. Plus, crossing the border with the registration might be a problem. Would not want to be bringing back any invasive species, either. Lots of room for thought here.
EDIT: Just after leaving my post I went and looked on Youtube and there are lots of Capri 14.2 videos. I was unfamiliar with this model and just looked at the picture and it looked more flush-deck So, actually, instead of re-writing my post, it appears this *could* work for the two of you. Not perfect for someone approaching retirement maybe, but with the warmer weather right now and the options available, and the planned time frame, it could be money well spent to start learning on and get the feel. Having a large lake there would be helpful for resale, I would guess. Don't know where the prevailing winds come from, probably straight down the lake? Would be nice to have some beam-reach winds. So, probably not the best option but not necessarily that bad. Wet, yes.
Check the condition of the sails, if they are "blown out". This is all about learning about boats, right?
Edit #2: Just did some Craigs list searches and in the Seattle & Portland area there are two 14.2 boats for $2,500 and 2,800. Detroit MI $2,200 and $1,900, and a dealer boat for $3,000. Naturally age and condition are important. One thing I like about the boat in your picture is there is no bottom paint so it was dry-sailed. I'm surprised they're going for that much but new boats are expensive and they might not be that old.
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Lol. So true about the boat shrinking. Good to remember. I also appreciate you drilling into my head the second half being comfortable and confident. After all I do want her to enjoy it right off the hop. Thanks again.
A lot of good advise here and I can't really add all that much. I would agree that the 15-19 foot range is about right for an adult beginner. I've had several boats from 8 - 26 foot and recently purchased a 1972 Daysailer 17. It was in pretty sad shape but the trailer alone was worth the $900 that I paid for it. My primary reason for purchasing it was for teaching others in the area to sail. Now that I've had a few weeks experience with the Daysailer she has actually replaced my 10' Montgomery as my all-time favorite sailboat. (Yes, I love that little 10 boat.)
One thing to consider is your own physical condition. I'm assuming that you're still fairly agile. If that's the case then an unballested boat would be fine for learning. However, for a person who is a bit slower and has difficulty moving around to balance the boat (or if you are one who would rather kick back with a cocktail and not put so much effort into sailing) a ballasted boat, such as the Montgomery 15 mentioned earlier, might be a better choice.
One thing to consider is your own physical condition. I'm assuming that you're still fairly agile. If that's the case then an unballested boat would be fine for learning. However, for a person who is a bit slower and has difficulty moving around to balance the boat (or if you are one who would rather kick back with a cocktail and not put so much effort into sailing) a ballasted boat, such as the Montgomery 15 mentioned earlier, might be a better choice.
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I sail a Capri 14.2 EXPO. It's a cat rig that is very forgiving. A dingy without the capsize. The mast is carbon fiber with no stays. Gusts just bend the top of the mast spilling the wind. I sail it on Boca Ciaga Bay in Seminole FL. I'm 72 so didn't want to work hard, just sail about looking for dolphins and manatees. I've sailed in 30 knts without trouble. Just roll up some of the sail on the rotating mast and you are reefed. Only two lines, outhaul and furling line. A fun boat for the aged. BTW, my other boat is a Capri 22 which keeps me on my toes with every sail control possible. More work but equally fun boat and very stable considering it only weighs 2250 pounds dry.
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I'm quite a fan of the Windrider 17. If you don't need a cabin to get into, this is a fantastic trimaran. Very easy to launch and sail. you can pull the boat with a small car as the trailer and boat together only weight about 800 pounds. A great beginners boat as it's very forgiving and sails well enough to make experienced sailors enjoy them.
There used to be a users group on the web but for some reason it disappeared a couple years ago. Too bad, it was a great resource. In any case, here's a review you can read on the web.
I don't agree you can sit two people in the front cockpit, boy that would be tight. But the front cockpit seat can be positioned to face forward or backwards so the person in the front cockpit could face either direction as preferred. I also don't know about having 4 adults and a couple kids... While it would carry them and sail, the boat performance really slows down with more than about two people on it...
You don't hear much about these boats, but they are really nice to sail.
dj
There used to be a users group on the web but for some reason it disappeared a couple years ago. Too bad, it was a great resource. In any case, here's a review you can read on the web.
Boat Review
www.sailingbreezes.com
I don't agree you can sit two people in the front cockpit, boy that would be tight. But the front cockpit seat can be positioned to face forward or backwards so the person in the front cockpit could face either direction as preferred. I also don't know about having 4 adults and a couple kids... While it would carry them and sail, the boat performance really slows down with more than about two people on it...
You don't hear much about these boats, but they are really nice to sail.
dj
I'm 45 and pretty agile. I think the type of boat I'm looking for is one I could possibly have a cocktail on with my wife or another couple. I love thrills but I've been beat up many times from too many thrills. Lol.
I won't be trailering the boat anywhere else. Just in and out of our lake. A shallow draft is important and not tipping is important.(don't think the other half would like it that much).
I won't be trailering the boat anywhere else. Just in and out of our lake. A shallow draft is important and not tipping is important.(don't think the other half would like it that much).
Sounds to me like a swing keel would fit the bill perfectly. Water ballest is nice for trailering but not needed for your situation. A lot of swing keel boats were made between 1965 and 1985, most of them just need new sails and a little cleaning and can be purchased fairly cheap. I loved my Venture 222 (seen in avatar).