Looking to Start Sailing

[LakeMan]

Hi there, I joined this forum to get some help from experienced sailors. My wife and I have been reading and dreaming of sailing and retiring in the Caribbean one day. We are middle aged and have never sailed. We live on Lake Manitoba and would like to buy a sail boat this fall.

I'm looking for help on what my first boat should be.

Most of the time it will be just me and her, but, occasionally another couple could join us.
Any suggestions? Thanks

 

[Tally Ho]

My experience started about 10 years ago, when I went on a day sail with a friend on his Catalina 30. I fell in love with the notion of harnessing the wind, sailing for “free”, and needing some skill to get the most of the boat and the conditions.

My first boat was a 1996 Hunter 280. Checked most of the boxes for me at the time...inboard diesel, wheel steering, not needing a lot of work to get her in the water. Kept her for about 5 years and learned a lot about sailing, boat systems and maintenance, etc. All on a boat that was not overwhelming to sail, dock or maintain. I mostly day sail.

Her cabin was small and “plastic”. Just an ice box and 2-burner stove top in the galley. She did have a head. But her cabin was small and lacked “character”. She was however a great starter boat. Easy to sail, little maintenance required.

I found my O’Day 322, fell in love with her and bought her about 5 years ago. She sails well in bigger seas and more wind than my lighter H280 was comfortable in. Her cabin is well equipped for a 30-foot boat, Nd she has “character”. Character also means more maintenance and work to keep her looking good and maintained...my H280 had NO Teak anywhere. I had to sand down and refinish teak this year on the;O’Day 322.

I don’t consider either of my boats sufficient to live on for very long (I overnight a few weekends and she is great for that). Nor would I consider either boat Ocean Cruisers. Before I get to that point, I would upgrade to a 37-40 foot blue water boat.

Fun times...enjoy the search!


Greg

 

[DayDreamer41]

Well first off, welcome to SBO's forum one of the best sites out there.
Your question has been asked by many individuals who drop by and the answers are pretty much they same although some conversations went on and on.
Make a list of what you what in a boat now, take a walk through a couple of yacht clubs and look at the boats there, there is one thing boat owners are not afraid of and that is talking about their boats, try asking around and see if you can get hooked up with a boat to crew on for racing days (although late in the season for that, only a couple of races left til the end of the season), look at local ads and go kick some tires as they say, establish a budget as to how much you want to spend on this first boat, signup for an ASA course down in FL with the wife and see how that goes. There are many more words of advice to finding that boat suited for your needs now and tomorrow, be wise and be patient.

 

[LakeMan]

Thank you both for your replies. I have noticed it is a very common question. I really like the idea of taking the ASA course in Florida to get comfortable with Ocean sailing. My main focus of the question was looking for a boat for a day sailor on Lake Manitoba. It's a large, open body of water with an average depth of 10 to 12'. I was considering a catamaran but maybe a monohull would be more comfortable. Looking for comfort and fun. And something that we can pull up to our own lake front. We have a shallow approach to our rocky beach. Any suggestions?

 

[John Nantz]

For the size lake, pulling up on your beach (with a wheeled dolly assist), and learning about sailing and doing it, comfort and fun, a recommendation would be something like the 17-ft O'Day Daysailer.

My first boat was a 12-ft lateen-rig boat with a fixed rudder (not swing-up) and a daggerboard. After getting married, we got a 16-ft Falcon daysailer (with a cuddy) and sailed all over the place with it.
Cuddy: The smaller boats typically don't have a cuddy which is very desirable. Its a place where one can stash things (lunch, jackets, camera, etc.) that can stay out of the sun and water that splashes over the bow. In the case of a couple, it's a place where the wife (typically) can hunker down to avoid some of the spray when the husband (typically at the stern with the tiller) is far enough away to not get soaked.
Swingup rudder & centerboard: Better option than a fixed rudder and a daggerboard.
Jib: Most daysailers will have a jib and therefore can possibly be rigged a spinnaker or code zero option for more exciting sailing.
Trailerable: Easy to take down and set the mast. A boat even a few feet larger will have a mast that is progressively more difficult to set although mast raising systems are helpful.
Cost: 16 > 17 ft is comparatively inexpensive. Cost increases somewhat exponentially with length. Check the used ads. In some ways, this size can be more expensive used than some larger boats in the 20 - 24 ft size as the larger ones require a bigger tow vehicle, larger trailer (replacement cost is a lot),
Trailer: Single axel will do it.
Outboard: 3-hp is more than fine.
Learning: An excellent size boat for learning to sail and to do maintenance.
For going forward, I would support your preferences and would avoid a "race boat" type model and stick with a comfortable style as it would be less demanding on the significant other.

Daysailer picture: Falcon 16, McVey design (Nova Scotia *I think*) by Sterling Boat Company in Rhode Island (or Mass.?) c. 1966. O'Day made a similar model of a newer design that is slightly larger.
Flotation in bow and stern. Stowage under seats.

Falcon 16 at Block Island

Sailed the length of Lake Tahoe in one afternoon (launching at noon, anchoring at South Shore that evening).

 

[rgranger]

Your first boat won’t be the one you retire on and you don’t give up anything in the way of skill building when you learn sailing on a smaller boat. Many would argue the opposite

 

[Meriachee]

You will find a whole bunch of Macgregor 26’s out there and they can be had for pretty cheap. The logic is diverse: they are just about the best lake sailors up here for our short seasons, you can launch them in a roadside puddle. They trailer exceptionally well, can be run up on the beach (to a point) and there’s a ton of space in them.
They are water ballast and quite tippy, which in the long run is a good thing; if you can get around that , on a northern inland lake, you can sail anything.
We owned one for 15 years.
You can probably find a “c” model in the 5-7k range. Learn to rig it, sail it, camp in it, then sell it for 5-7k.

 

[dLj]

+1 on the Mac. My brother and I owned one and sailed it in the Gulf of Mexico, Georgian Bay and many places in-between. I'm sure there are a number of other boats that will fill your needs, Having a centerboard and pop up rudder sounds like really good advice. Allows you to beach the boat. I also agree sailing a smaller boat first is the better way to go and you will be learning skills that will always serve you.

Get the best condition boat you can with the constraints for your area and budget available. Unless you really like working on your boat.

dj

 

[capta]

I would suggest a real beater in the 16 to 19 foot range; a Rhodes 19 being one of my favorites. With a beater you can enjoy learning to sail without your heart breaking each time you bump into a piling, dock or go aground.
Once you have that boat mastered (no lessons necessary), you can move on to a nice boat without the fear that you are out of your depth. After all, you've already made most of the mistakes we have all made to get the experience necessary to become proficient in our sport. I would suggest a copy of Sailing Illustrated would be a great addition to your sailing library as it is not a boring tome, but rather a fun, yet comprehensive book which the novice or experienced sailor can refer to when necessary. It covers everything from boat nomenclature to splicing and anchoring.

 

[MikeHoncho]

Its critical to know if your wife has the same motivation (willing to overlook comfort) or not. If not I would go with a little bigger boat that handles gusts well and has some creature comforts to "get her on board". Toilet, heat of some type, dependable engine.

 

[Justin_NSA]

What Mike said. It's critical to get the spouse on board. Pun intended.
Find that balance.

 

[shemandr]

I agree with Capta regarding the Rhodes 19 but get the fixed keel version. Great sailor, kindly older design but sweet. An excellent trainer. And a big cockpit for a 19' boat. No real cabin but a cuddy to store gear in and possibly take refuge in bad weather. In really bad weather the requirements for comfort in shelter diminish greatly.
You probably are not aware of this but sailboats are divided into "Mast Head" rigs and "Fractional Rigs." The Rhodes is the ladder which I consider a plus. It means the jib is smaller and way easier to handle.
I'm shocked to learn that Lake Manitoba is only on average 10 to 12' deep. You never know until you know.

 

[JohnShannon]

Probably should learn to sail, then buy the boat. These guys might be able to hook you up

Sail Canada |

www.sailing.ca

Manitoba is a big lake where abouts?

 

[John Nantz]

Manitoba is a big lake where abouts?

 

[sailme88]

Were I you, I would search for a blue water sailing school that offers various different boats to learn on.. You'll get the best of both worlds, by learning about sailing and gaining an insight into what different boats have to offer..

 

[DAVA390]

Have to respectfully disagree with Capta. about lessons. At middle age ( late 50s) wife and I signed up for lessons at local community college on a bucket list whim. We learned on all knee bangers and quickly realized we need to go slightly larger for first boat to continue learning. First boat was 18 ft. Trailer sailer beater, don't stress over condition, learning curve was part of the restoration/ repairs, kept the budget low while deciding if this is really for us. Glad we did the lessons, just don't sign up for the spring session, capsize drills can be torture.!!!!!

 

[capta]

Have to respectfully disagree with Capta. about lessons. At middle age ( late 50s) wife and I signed up for lessons at local community college on a bucket list whim. We learned on all knee bangers and quickly realized we need to go slightly larger for first boat to continue learning. First boat was 18 ft. Trailer sailer beater, don't stress over condition, learning curve was part of the restoration/ repairs, kept the budget low while deciding if this is really for us. Glad we did the lessons, just don't sign up for the spring session, capsize drills can be torture.!!!!!

In most things I've found that taking lessons before one really understands what one doesn't know isn't as helpful as trial and error until I know what I need to learn.
My primary objection to courses like ASA (I taught their courses for a short time) was the 'cookie cutter' style of teaching. Most people learn at a different rate and when you have a class of varied people some require a lot more in-depth attention, which leaves everybody else sitting around while that gets done, if it gets done. The frustration of those who don't get it easily can affect the mood of the whole class.

 

[Meriachee]

There’s a huge difference behind these prairie lakes and the ocean.

 

[Grotto]

I would vote for the Catalina 22. Big enough to learn the big boat stuff. Small enough to not overwhelm new sailors. Very forgiving of new sailors mistakes, great weekender, or even camping style weeks aboard. (Limited facilities, and amenities) is also has literally thousands of hulls built so parts are plentiful. The 22 taught a whole generation to sail.

 

[DAVA390]

In most things I've found that taking lessons before one really understands what one doesn't know isn't as helpful as trial and error until I know what I need to learn.
My primary objection to courses like ASA (I taught their courses for a short time) was the 'cookie cutter' style of teaching. Most people learn at a different rate and when you have a class of varied people some require a lot more in-depth attention, which leaves everybody else sitting around while that gets done, if it gets done. The frustration of those who don't get it easily can affect the mood of the whole class.

That explains it,thank you.