Looking for W/C Skipper advice

[bredlo]

Hoping to get some advice... in particular from folks familiar with both boats and RV's. Peggi Hall, I'd love to hear from you as well... you're obviously well regarded in this 'game of thrones'.

We have a 1954 Airstream trailer, which is being outfitted with several marine-environment appliances, ranging from the fridge: an Isotherm 12v fridge/freezer combo to the oven: and a used Hillerange range/oven with the gimbal hardware removed. All are in stainless steel, and will have custom galley cabinetry designed around them.

When it comes to the bathroom (a wet bath design), I really want to avoid the boring, modern plastic toilet. While visiting family in California last month, I found a Wilcox Crittenden Skipper head at a marine salvage place in Newport Beach.

In doing a little research, I believe I got it for a good deal (sub $300) and despite its very hefty weight, I just love that its reputation is that it'll last as long as our trailer. I'd like to polish and wax the bronze portion, which would hopefully look good in a stainless bathroom setting.

My hope is to determine if this hand pumped head can be used with a modern, on-demand water supply (run by a pump) and black tank fittings. Obviously this toilet isn't a gravity feed setup, so I'm already assuming I may need to adapt some fittings to connect the head to the waste tank. My first concern, though, is whether or not my pump (which automatically runs when one turns on a faucet, for example) will respond to having this toilet connected to the overall system.

If anyone can help - RV experience or not - all advice is welcome!

 

[Lost Parent]

Why not just get a porcelin bowl toilet for an rv ?

 

[Benny17441]

In order to control the water pressure pump you will need to install a valve on the intake hose. A ball type valve should do nicely. You open the valve, it activates the pump and water fills the bowl. I'm not sure about the configuration of the manual pump on the head but I would think it would allow pressured water to pass through. Now you will probably need to operate the manual pump to discharge the bowl into the holding tank. Before you may get to deep into the install just ascertain the you can get the rebuild kit for the manual pump. If it is was me before tearing into the RV I would install a valve and a garden hose to it connected to a spiket and check for the functioning of filling and discharging the bowl. Once you are comfortable that it may work as intended then go head and install in the RV. Perhaps someone with 1st hand knowledge of the Wilcox Skipper may provide a better idea. I don't share your enthusiasm for installing a marine head on an RV as the operation will be somewhat cumbersome and you will have unsightly hoses and a valve in plain view but it seems you are about $400 commited into the project and I think it is attainable. On the upside you will have a one of a kind toilet in what it is a fine RV. Post pictures of the completed project.

 

[bredlo]

Why not just get a porcelin bowl toilet for an rv ?

As I hinted at with the polished bronze comment, aesthetics are one of my interests. Its reputation as a well-built product is another. The fact I'd be recycling something - in particular something designed for a completely different setting - is a 3rd interest.

All these priorities, I guess you could call them, fall in line behind functionality. I'd only want to make this happen if I can get essentially the same functionality as a new RV toilet - in plastic, porcelain or otherwise. If I can't, I'll simply resell it for what I paid... and move onto other aspects of the renovation.

 

[bredlo]

In order to control the water pressure pump you will need to install a valve on the intake hose. A ball type valve should do nicely. You open the valve, it activates the pump and water fills the bowl.

Having not used either RV toilets or the Skipper, I'm currently at a disadvantage to do much more than ponder alongside you. Maybe I've posted the question too soon... but it's free and I enjoy a little education along with my search for a solution. My thought was that the hand pump was the part that lets water into the bowl... and the foot pedal flushed it away.

Looks like I have some learning to do before going much further.

Before you may get to deep into the install just ascertain the you can get the rebuild kit for the manual pump. If it is was me before tearing into the RV I would install a valve and a garden hose to it connected to a spiket and check for the functioning of filling and discharging the bowl. Once you are comfortable that it may work as intended then go head and install in the RV.

Good plan, I agree with all that. I know the kits are available (they're all over the web from $116 on up, it seems) and the garden hose idea is good too.

I don't share your enthusiasm for installing a marine head on an RV... On the upside you will have a one of a kind toilet in what it is a fine RV. Post pictures of the completed project.

Agreed on all counts. If it becomes more of a theoretical headache than it's worth, I may abandon this plan and sell the head instead. I simply wanted to have it on hand in case there's a simple / elegant solution.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Hoping to get some advice... in particular from folks familiar with both boats and RV's. Peggi Hall, I'd love to hear from you as well... you're obviously well regarded in this 'game of thrones'.

My hope is to determine if this hand pumped head can be used with a modern, on-demand water supply (run by a pump) and black tank fittings. Obviously this toilet isn't a gravity feed setup, so I'm already assuming I may need to adapt some fittings to connect the head to the waste tank. My first concern, though, is whether or not my pump (which automatically runs when one turns on a faucet, for example) will respond to having this toilet connected to the overall system.

Nope...the Skipper was designed to be a sea water toilet...and all sea water toilets are designed to PULL water in. On-demand water pumps PUSH water (which is how they keep the system pressurized). Pushing water through a toilet pump that's designed to pull in water plays hell with the seals and valves in the pump.

There's also another problem: There are toilets designed to use pressurized flush water, and they have the necessary vacuum breakers and backflow preventers designed into 'em to allow 'em to be safely connected to the potable water supply. That's NOT true of sea water toilets. No toilet designed to use sea water should ever be connected to the fresh water plumbing because it risks e-coli contamination of the potable water...and and every toilet mfr specifically warns against it in their installation instructions.

So if you want to use the Skipper in a trailer, you'll have a to install a separate flush water tank that it can pull from.

There's more: Thetford--who bought Wilcox Crittenden about 10 years ago--discontinued the entire W-C product line a couple of years ago. The only repair parts that are still available are rebuild kits what little hardware is still left in inventory. If the bronze has worn enough to require re-machining, it'll cost you BIG bucks...more than the toilet is worth. The best thing you can do with it IMO is plant geraniums in it.

However, if you're still determined (keeping in mind that neither you nor your guests know much if anything about how marine toilets--or anything else "marine"--work and how to maintain 'em) to install the Skipper in an Airstream trailer, I have the parts list and exploded drawings for it if you need 'em. To send me an email, click on my name at the left this of this post and select email (NOT private message please)

However, IMO the best thing you can do with it is shine it up and plant geraniums in it. The Skipper was a fine toilet in its day, but Remington typewriters were the top of their line in their day too.

 

[bredlo]

Nope...

...pushing water through a toilet pump that's designed to pull in water plays hell with the seals and valves

...it risks e-coli contamination of the potable water...and and every toilet mfr specifically warns against it in their installation instructions.

...you'll have a to install a separate flush water tank that it can pull from.

...If the bronze has worn enough to require re-machining, it'll cost you BIG bucks...more than the toilet is worth.

...The Skipper was a fine toilet in its day, but Remington typewriters were the top of their line in their day too.

And... that seems to sum things up quite tidily.
I appreciate everyone taking the time to weigh in - while I hate to buy anything with obsolescence practically designed right into it... I'd also rather not be waiting for something to go terribly wrong with each flush.

Benny and Peggy, it sounds like you've identified some basic functionality being the complete opposite of what my pressurized system will require. It's too bad, because it's a damn good looking machine (for what it is). As for my Skipper, it'll probably wind up on eBay in the near future.

Thanks, all.